VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Quoted Pricing

Not sure about others out there but I'm starting to get fed up with parts vendors or service providers quoting me prices, then charging me more at the time payment is due. Not sure why this is so prevalent these days but it seems very few seem to stand by their word. I guess I'm old school and still believe with my "word being my word" but it's really putting a sour taste in my mouth. I'm not talking about estimates either so don't get the two confused. I understand an estimate is only an approximate guess of cost. I'm talking about an actual cost quote which is a different thing. A quote lists the process of work or items to be delivered and the total actual cost that will be charged. If I'm quoted this is going to cost me $400 then a month later I'm told to send $450, that's just wrong. If a machine shop says $400 to bore an engine then comes back with $500, that's wrong. When I sent a vendor a message questioning his upcharge at the end of service, they didn't even reply other than saying the cost is XYZ (the original price plus the upcharge!) I've personally quoted something too low and still delivered my work for that quoted price. I of course then learned that what I quoted cost me more than what I thought and realized the next time I would need to quote more but I didn't charge the person I originally quoted more because I made a mistake. I've also quoted a job, had it take less time, and charged my customer less. Those who I've done work for can confirm this. Of course, vendors doing this to me are getting checked off my list but the problem starts arising that there isn't many doing some of these services. Perhaps this is why many feel it's okay to quote one thing and charge another figuring customers have nowhere else to go. to me this is how lousy business is done. People need to be more honorable but I suppose I'm just dreaming these days. OK, done ranting.

I have had this sign hanging in my shop for many years.

Chistech,

I understand your frustration, know exactly what you are saying here.

I'm one of the REAL older guys still on this VCCA forum and can clearly remember when a mans word or his handshake was better than any written contract.

I worked for Chevy for 35 years, but after retiring ...... and not wanting to do as much on my cars MYSELF, I went on the hunt to find a trustworthy technician to do odds and ends for me on my cars.

What a rude awakening that search turned into to ...... the honest, responsible individual with integrity seemingly disappeared from the work place.

I did find a shop that was loyal to me, straight forward, honest .... and, in turn, I have been loyal to that shop.

Yes, I found one shop that satisfied my wallet and my expectations, but have to tell you I found too many others that only wanted the "one time hit" from my wallet.

The same is happening here in Aus as well and the other that is happening is overpricing to start with. I try to deal locally as much as possible, apart from knowing the people I am dealing with it is easier to travel local when there is a problem to sort out.
Tony

I have found that it is best to get a written quote with the work to be done spelled out and the cost for that work. It also helps to get the cost up front for a written quote after inspection. Usually that is the first step in the quote. A shop that I use that does excellent work (though not cheap) has a price list for certain rebuilding procedures and specifies pricing does not include disassembly and cleaning prior to rebuilding. Check out their posted prices at www.rlengines.com.

I always tell people that if they own a classic vehicle & they do not have the mechanical or physical ability to perform a VAST MAJORITY of the restoration & maintenance procedures on their own...
{ along with not having the desire or ability to do the research & locate parts at the lowest price possible }......

..............they better have deep pockets & a high tolerance for B.S. when they have to pay someone else to do it.

Having deep pockets helps but l like to decide how deep to dig rather than have someone else help themselves. I agree with Chistech that a lot of shops throw around prices by using the WAG system just to get a customer in the shop and then feel they have a free hand to charge whatever they like. That's why I advise to always get it in writing-it's a contract and most have a limit on the amount over the quote they can go without the customer It's the Golden Rule- "The one with the gold makes the rules".

My 2 cents....A national Brake group is open near my office..I had a broken pipe hanger on my 54 chev.. verbal quote was 30.00 to replace it. O.K.. went to retrieve my car and was presented with a bill of 1300 dollars.seemed they saw the need to replace 2 mufflers ,down pipe gasket and 2 exhaust tips..hangers and a rt. rear brake cylinder(neaded heat) and extra labor.. I was told by the manager that I couldn't get the car until the mechanics lien was paid.. I paid it.. AND proceded to raise all kinds of hell.Area,district and national managers.. 50 faxes the first day..and every day until some called my office and told me that I was harming their network.....My next call from them was a suit who promised that it would be taken care of..Next day I had a total refund and a gift certificate for a free brake job....Their motto of WE DO IT ALL has new meaning. btw I did have the 30.00 written quote

Do you think the results might have been different without the quote?

WOW ! That is an amazing event of daylight thieves !

When we had or shop, in Iowa you could only go over the estimate by 10% without the customers ok. If you need to go over that you had to get the customers ok.

This seems very reasonable, and is a common practice with shops that I have dealt with.

The same IS THE LAW in Wisconsin. Also a estimate is not written in stone, it is an educated guess. Can be very difficult to "guess" problems in todays complicated cars as well as vehicles over 50 years old.

I realize there is a difference to an estimate, or quoted estimate versus a quoted price for a service or item. What happened to Blue is totally wrong and even the vendor agreed, though it took a lot of work on his part. I mean things like tires or an oil change. Call up and they tell you a tire costs $100. Then you call back, they tell you you’re all set, tires are mounted on your rims, ready to go, then when you go to pay, they tell you $109 ea! Or I get an email telling me they will make me a part for $400 then send me an email when it’s done telling me part is $450 + $xxx for shipping. The email was a written quote. I ended up complaining and sending a copy of that email. I ended up getting the original price but I’m sure these type of guys count on the customer forgetting or not bothering to fight for that original price quoted.

I know and feel your pain. with out local club here, i put together our yearly roster and was asked to get quotes on printing it. i spelled out exactly what we wanted and how we wanted it in graphical artist/ printing lingo. weight of paper, number of sheets, how to fold, number of staples, etc got quotes from several shops and then presented it all to the board for review and approval. we voted and approved a vendor and i called them to validate the price 2.80 and ability to complete the task and time to do so. They are a local shop do great work and said they were good to go and so we moved forward. Sent over the file to be printed Sunday eve,then Monday morning get a call and email saying it is going to cost 4.30 each to print.i then inquired to WHY we were going from 2.80 to 4.30 each !! their response was they misquoted and did not realize how much work they would have to do and what it would take ?? i told them to stop the presses and i would have to present the new quote back to the board for approval as we had bod out the printing. they immediately responded back saying they would honor the 2.80 and learn from their mistake and move forward. we got the rosters printed, picked them up Friday, they look good. i am glad they honored their quoted price.

remember an estimate is just a guesstimate, hardly ever what you will pay... a quote is exactly what they say for what they say !!

and as always honesty is the best policy, IF you want to keep your customers !!

When I had the floorpans repaired in my project car, I was quoated $3.5K. Gage them $5K initially to fully cover it. They did some work and said they needed another $5K to finish the job. Sent that too. Then said the new bill was $7.5 on top of what I had already paid. Still more work to do. I said bring the car back. They did. I settled for $7K more instead of the $7.5 they billed me. Total $17K. Floor pans were not sealed up and made up of many pieces. Not a very good job at all. They didn't use much of the floor pans I had purshased from Cof4s and FS.

All this was from a restoration company here in NC. There was a handshake for all that was worth.

I guess the old saying about "Do it now, do it right, and do it yourself" is a good one.

My sickness over my stupidity in the above matter will sour me toward restoration shops for the rest of my life. As advised, get a good written contract but don't expect too much from obtaining it. A handshake either.

Lesson learned.

Charlie

BTW: Does anyone know of someone I can trust to partly finish this project. It needs all the L&B (Hampton Coach) Kit for the seats top, etc. bought and installed, paint (2011 GMC maroon. Looks close to ruby maroon but better) and glass channels re-put-together and glass work. Dash and gages installed. All the rest I can do. I've already asked a couple of the chatters I trust but no takers so far. I would deliver the car and come and get it when finished with the above work is done. How about it Mike Fuller. Good chance to make a nice buck or two. Is too!

After reading your post Charlie it makes me realize the shop I used treated me fairly. They welded in front floor pans,braces and inner and outer rockers, and the R.H rear floor pan for $1500.00 and that included seam sealer and epoxy prime paint. I then had them install lower quarter panels and tail pan for another $1000.00. That was a mistake as they are a "bondo shop" and though they did no finish work all panels were installed with lap welds. To top it off there was bondo in some areas they worked in so they removed it with a ball peen hammer. Not pretty!! I did supply all the replacement panels,sills, and floor braces. I have not figured out how to repair their "panel work" but even if I have to redo it all I am a long ways away from the $$$$ you spent. If you would like a first class job check out www.davidsenautointerior.com. I know they can handle the interior and glass work but not sure about the dash and wiring.

[quote=41specialdeluxe]When I had the floorpans repaired in my project car, I was quoated $3.5K. Gage them $5K initially to fully cover it. They did some work and said they needed another $5K to finish the job. Sent that too. Then said the new bill was $7.5 on top of what I had already paid. Still more work to do. I said bring the car back. They did. I settled for $7K more instead of the $7.5 they billed me. Total $17K. Floor pans were not sealed up and made up of many pieces. Not a very good job at all. They didn't use much of the floor pans I had purshased from Cof4s and FS.

All this was from a restoration company here in NC. There was a handshake for all that was worth.

I guess the old saying about "Do it now, do it right, and do it yourself" is a good one.

My sickness over my stupidity in the above matter will sour me toward restoration shops for the rest of my life. As advised, get a good written contract but don't expect too much from obtaining it. A handshake either.

Lesson learned.

Charlie

BTW: Does anyone know of someone I can trust to partly finish this project. It needs all the L&B (Hampton Coach) Kit for the seats top, etc. bought and installed, paint (2011 GMC maroon. Looks close to ruby maroon but better) and glass channels re-put-together and glass work. Dash and gages installed. All the rest I can do. I've already asked a couple of the chatters I trust but no takers so far. I would deliver the car and come and get it when finished with the above work is done. How about it Mike Fuller. Good chance to make a nice buck or two. Is too! :dance

With the money you have spent, thus far, you certainly should have received a "customer friendly discount".
If not a cash discount, perhaps a Fulton visor, painted and installed at n/c to you.

Bob,

You're such a swell pal, you know that? A fulton? Now that right there is as lowdown as one can get. At least as far as I'm concerned.

Best,

Charlie


BTW: Do you know how to tell a fulton lover by just looking at him? He will be accompanied by a dog, a white cane and a Boy Scout whilst crossing the intersection.. The scout and dog will try to keep any conversation to a minimum. See survey 101 conducted by Volomious Chatters Concerning the Artless Amateurs (VCCAA).

Reading what others have posted here is exactly why I posted in the first place. We like to blame “today’s” issues on the young and the millennials when in fact most of those treating us badly are much older. The millennials and the young are they way they are because some of the 40-50 yr parents have taught them to be just how they are. I try to do the best work I can and charge a fair price for that work. I can make a mistake just like anyone can but I will pay for my mistakes in most cases depending on exactly what the mistake is. Reading what others have paid for poor work and then hearing no remorse from those who did and charged for the work just makes me cringe. I do almost everything when I restore a car other than machining on a motor and finish body work/paint. From upholstery to wiring, from glass to roofs, and the main reason I do it is first for quality, second for a price savings I can pass on to my customer, and third because it allows me to stay close to my restoration timelines. I am always waiting for the paint and machine shops. They are what holds me up on a restoration every time. To help speed them up, the bodies go to paint mounted on a rotisserie with any patch panels fully welded in with flat butt seams, fenders and doors are fully disassembled with all hardware blasted, primed, and ready for paint in cardboard holders. Motors go to the machine shop on rolling dollies, heads off, new gasket sets, shims, and I research and get all parts once I’m told the dimensions needed. Still, more than 6 months is always required by both. Best thing is neither has ever charged me more than their ESTIMATE, yes, their estimate. For this reason I continue to work with them as their quality is also outstanding.

Young generations are the product of their upbringings or lack therof. I am constantly amazed that new employees everywhere have to be trained to say "please" and "thank you" and to make eye contact. Very sad.

As for the lack of honesty in business, the few good honest folks out there are gems in a world of cheats and rudeness. That's whey we need an Updated Vendor and Services Thread so we members can reward good crafts persons and vendors with our business.
I note most local clubs do maintain lists of preferred service shops. I know I am always on the look out.
My body guy was constantly checking with me before proceeding further on his labor time and was very conscientious. Yes, he did go way over on time, but we had an arrangement before the work started and at all times I was in control of how much he did. (Body work is an unknown task as hidden unforeseen things do crop up. BTW, I found him on Craigslist, so there are jewels out there.

When you find disreputable businesses, one does have recourse with the Better Business Bureau, local TV consumer help folks, and finally the lawyer route.

Also.

Charlie

FWIW the two shops here that do restorations/customs don't do estimates. All work is a cost plus arrangement. They charge for hours worked and materials used. You can set an upper limit. I thought they all worked that way. From my experience as a body man it would be foolish to provide a firm price up front because you have no idea exactly what possible horrors may be hiding under the paint. FYI, that's why they call them "estimates". To be fair they should contact you if it looks like they'll go much over any estimate they are foolish enough to provide.

One of the shops does restorations and restomod/hotrods. The other does customs. Both have clientele from all over the country and a waiting list to get in the door.