VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Massive coolant leak into the oil

Parked the '30 last night and all was well. Oil was full and clean.
Started it up the next morning and after about 2 mins there was a milky white liquid coming out of the dipstick hole and dripping out of the rear main seal. the stuff was everywhere. I checked the oil level and it was at least 2 inches above full. What do you think could have caused this massive leak in a matter of a couple of minutes. I'm thinking maybe an internal casting failure do to rust maybe. I guess it could have leaked in overnight but with the engine off this seems rather unlikely.

I really have no idea.

Any ideas ???

Larry.

My first thought is head gasket which was the trouble on my '32 with a '33 head.
It SEEMS not enough attention was paid to the head whoever and whenever it was replaced as it wasn't flat.
But with all the reports of cracked heads that can't be ruled out either but the head will have to come off anyway.
Good luck.......I hope it's not a cracked head.

Do the heads on a 32 just crack or dose there need to be an overheating event to cause them to crack?

It takes some stress to form a crack. That can be from overheating or piece of crud between head and block when head is torqued down or shock from adding cold water to hot casting.

I have heard of a new old stock cylinder head still in the crate that was cracked. The 1929-32 cylinder heads are famous for cracking. I had a whole stack of 1929-32 cylinder heads years ago and every cylinder head was cracked.

You have to assume that the cylinder head has cracked or the cylinder head gasket has failed. That's an off with the head.

Looking at the cylinder head gasket will quickly show you where the leak is, if its the gasket.

Looking at the cylinder head it may be visible, if cracked , most likely a trip to the machine shop to have it zye glow tested for cracks.

Before you head there use a straight edge to check the block surface for straightness using feeler gauges . Once right down the middle, 2nd angle from one corner to the opposite other corner, 3rd do same again using diff corners.

Take the cylinder head machined surface and do the same thing .

You did not say how long ago the motor was overhauled, if at all. ??????

mike lynch

Thanks for the replies. It looks like it must be a cracked head. I am just not used to a head cracking for no reason. I guess it cracked at night after I shut it off and leaked coolant all night. Next morning the pan was full of coolant. It was never overheated.

I have no idea if or when the engine was rebuilt.

If it is a cracked head should I get the head repaired if it is repairable or try to find a good used on???

I have a head shop nearby that has been in business for 60 years so they should be able to handle it.

Thanks, Larry.

If it is from a cracked head or head gasket it would have filled the cylinder with coolant and the engine would have been hydrolocked and not turn over under most circumstances.

Pulling the head and side cover should give a better look.

If the head is cracked an if it is repairable, have the cylinder head repaired. Finding a "good" used head might take you a long time....that is IF you can find a good used head........and at a reasonable price.

Maybe they should start making these cylinder heads in China since Gene and Charlie think that most products made in China are of good quality.

I see you live in a warmer climate and not subject to over nite freezing like some of us other poor rusty soles. Chev Nut is correct with hydraulic lock when not on the exhaust stroke. If it ran well not many people check oil or rad after parking for the night when there is no reason to suspect some issue. But if it was checked out the nite before and did happen suddenly I am going to ask a silly question" has it been wet sleeved?". Lower seals directly to crank case head issues or head gasket would usually cause overheating issues
.

I'l give you a silly answer. LOL I have been working on cars for 60 or so years and do not know what "wet Sleeved" is nor do I know if it has been done.

Larry.

Many larger displacement engines, primarily diesels, have removable cylinder liners. Those are also referred to as "wet sleeved". The top of the "sleeve" is held in place by the head and an o-ring seals the gap between the liner and the cylinder block. Coolant flows around the liner. Failure of the o-ring dumps large amounts of coolant into the oil pan.

There are two major reasons to have "wet sleeves". Much less costly and complicated to cast the block with out the cylinders and then machine the casting to accept the sleeves. A rebuild only requires replacing the sleeve and piston assembly. No need to bore and hone each cylinder to fit the oversized piston or install a "dry" sleeve.

There's one other reason the big diesels use them -- the sleeve is thinner than conventional cylinder walls and is in direct contact with the coolant for nearly the full length of the bore, so you get better heat transfer.

All the Best, Chip

Chipper I realize your explanation is meant for those not familiar with wet sleeves however it still involves block machining. Not to the liner but the block wears and has to be corrected to have a proper fit of the sleeve. The liner may be held at the top by the head but the seal ring(s) at the bottom allow movement and the liner will wear into the block . The block is then machined for either a sleeve to return it to standard or an oversize sleeve can be installed. You may not need to bore and hone the cylinder but without having proper counterbore dimensions you will have a failed rebuild. I believe also that some high performance race engines are machined for wet liners because of their cooling abilities as Chip pointed out above. Just didn't want those not familiar with wet sleeves (aka liners) to think they were a cure-all.

No expert here, but before pulling the head, I'd pull the plugs and use a borescope to see if there are signs of coolant in the cylinder(s). Probably yes, but using a borescope might help narrow down which cylinder(s) didn't sleep well.

If there is lots of coolant in the oil pan, its already gotten by the piston rings. Looking thru with a borescope would be waste of time renting one $$$$$$ , unless you have a friend who owns one.

The motor has serious coolant leakage problems, tearing down starting at the cylinder head is the answer. Open it up and find the problem.

mike lynch

I would drop the pan fill with water try and put a little pressure on the system to see where it comes from. If it was getting in the cylinders running would cause a miss and a sweet smelling cloud of white smoke out the exhaust.

So what have you found out other than whats stated above ????????????

mike lynch

I finally got some time today to look into the problem. I pulled the plugs and nothing looked unusual. I pilled the pushrod cover to get ready to pull the head and there was some milky white liquid around cyl. #5 pushrods. After removing the head the #5 cylinder had the white liquid on top of the piston. All other cyl. looked good.

I studied the head for some time and did not see any cracks.

If I had a crack I guess it would have been between the combustion chamber and one of the coolant passages. Is this correct????

If so it should be pretty easy to see.

I looked closely at the head gasket and it did look a little different around cyl #5. Not so different that I can say for sure this is the issue. Do to markings on the head gasket it looks to be 50 or more years old. Possibly the original gasket.

I'm going to take it to the head shop and see what they think.

Again, I would think a crack in the head to the combustion chamber would be easy to see.

Boy those spark plugs are hid up out of the way. No wonder they did not look bad.

Larry

It might need to be Die Checked or Magnafluxed

The common place for the head to crack is between the exhaust and intake valve.Valves would need to be removed to see. I would bet the head gasket is the problem.

Thanks, I will take a look at that area. I hope you are right about the gasket

A crack in the head would not have caused such a sudden massive leak, a gasket would.

Don't let the "head shop" talk you into hardened seats.

The slightly warped '33 head on my '32 was enough to cause gasket failure between cylinders 4 & 5.
It was plainly obvious where the trouble was.
It would take a pretty severe crack to leak fluids that quickly but have it tanked, fluxed and checked for flatness before you do anything else.
Ditto on the hardened seats unless you plan on doing a few coast to coast runs.

Even with a lot of constant driving, hardened seats are not warranted.