VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Carburetor Flooding with No Engine Starting

I know this has been discussed in other posts but if you don't mind I figured I would start another post with my current problem.

1. I Replaced the Tillotson carburetor last week with a rebuilt Carter RJH-08 150S.
2. I Flushed the tank and existing fuel lines with new gas.
3. I Ran a new fuel line and fittings from fuel pump to carburetor.

Had trouble at first getting it to run.
1. Rebuilt the fuel pump this weekend with a Filling Station kit that I ordered a while back. It went very well.

The engine took a while to get running after considerable tries. While it was running it would bog when I tried to give it gas like it was pulling in to much air (probably fuel).

I noticed that I had a fuel leaking around the diaphragm. I tightened the screws and that seemed to reduce the leakage quite a bit.

I am now unable to get the engine started. The carburetor is flooding like crazy. I still get a little leakage at the fuel pump diaphragm. I know I am getting spark because it wants to fire every once in a while.

I thought that the carburetor was preset when I purchased it from a gentleman named Walter. He may be a member of VCCA. Not sure. I don't want to just tear in to the carburetor just yet.

Anyway, after reading the other posts I believe the problem is probably either to much pressure from/at the fuel pump or an issue with the carburetor needle/seat or float. What should the pressure be leaving the fuel pump?

My order of tries to fix the issue will be:
1. Install paper filter in sediment bowl.
2. Install inline filter before fuel pump/sediment bowl.
3. Remove carburetor and shake it around gently.
4. Disassemble carburetor and check needle/seat and float.

Any help would be appreciated. I enjoy the hobby but am a little frustrated right now.

Sorry about the long note.

Bob

On the flooding issue, check the float to see if it is full of gas. Also, when you remove the needle if it has a Viton tip replace the needle and seat with a unit that has a metal needle.

I just rebuilt my fuel pump on my 1929, 1929 Fuel Pump Rebuild same TFS kit. i made sure the gasket surfaces for the diaphragm are FLAT. also when i put it back together you can NOT wrench down the screws as you can distort the cover or crack it. i rebuilt mine, and then made sure it was sucking and pumping, used my vacuum/ pressure gauge, but do not recall the numbers. it was not much.

If the carb is flooding then you are getting gas.

i would suspect a stuck float or need to be adjusted. that is an easy check and fix. also check the needle make sure it moves. Needle Location under Float
All Metal Needle Per JY Dogs Details

after that you are in needles and jets realm. you could blast some cleaner through each port to clean them out and see if they are free & clear.

also i would adjust it per the Repair Manual, setting the screw and tuning from there. Adjustment Screw

Thanks guys.

Interesting. BearsFan, I was just looking at your pictures from another post from earlier this year. I really appreciate all the pictures you have posted through the years. Including the "Robe Rail". They have all been interesting and VERY helpful.

I suspect the float or needle also. I will have to wait until tonight to check. My daytime job gets in the way of my hobby. But then again, that is why I can afford the hobby.

If I have to switch out the needle, where do I get one? I did not see one listed from the Filling Station or from Gary Wallace.

The nice thing is I can do this quickly with the carburetor still on the car.

Thanks to all.

Bob

You will have to find a new old stock metal needle and seat since all of the rebuild kits (including the kits from the Filling Station) contain Viton tipped needles.

You are most welcome... i have taken thousands of pictures on my venture to rebuild my 1929 over the last 4 years. fore most for me to know what goes where and such, but then to share with those here to help and guide them if they have questions.

to say i have thousands of picts, would be an understatement, but they have helped me immensely and hopefully helped out others.

i work 45+ hours a week as i am still young(er) and need the money to pay bills and live !! in about another 20+ years i hope to retire and enjoy my free time more.

Took my Carburetor off the '29 tonight and this is what I found.

Before I pulled the carburetor off the engine, the needle was going up and down.

Unfortunately I dropped the needle on the ground off the frame and this is what I found. See below.

I guess I have problems. Is the point missing from the needle? Is this a Viton Needle? There was no number on the needle. I guess I need a new needle and seat.




Bob

Yes, that is a Viton needle. There are two types of needles with Viton....one is pointed on the end and the other is flat on the end. Your needle is the flat Viton type.

Thanks.

I could not find anything else wrong with the carburetor. I guess I will put it back together after cleaning the ports and see what happens.

Where can I find a metal needle and seat replacement ?

Bob

You will have to call around to various obsolete parts suppliers to locate one.

Bob you might want to check that your float might have a pin hole in it filling up with gas which in turn calls for more fuel causing it to flood out! This happened on my 34 Chevy Carb.
Rory
1934 Chevrolet Standard DC Sport Roadster for sale
1933 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1934 Ford 4 Door Sedan rolling frame under construction
1933 Ford 4 Door Phaeton

There is nothing wrong with viton tipped needles except in gravity feed systems they NEED a clip which connects the float lever to the needle so the lever pulls the needle off of the seat as those needles have a tendency to stick in the seat.......
In your case, having a fuel pump, that won't happen.
Check out that >>> Needle & Seat

Bob

Sent you a PM about Needle

Years ago I performed a test on 10 restored carburetors for customers and in each carburetor I installed a Viton needle. The carburetors were various models of Carter carburetors...from updrafts to downdrafts and the carburetors were installed in Chevrolets from 1929 thru about 1941. As part of the test the individual customers understood in advance that if the Viton needle failed the customer would receive a metal needle and seat replacement free. All 10 failed! Flooding started either almost immediately or within a few miles of driving. I replaced all of the Viton tipped needles with metal needles and all 10 carburetors performed perfectly and there were no more flooding issues.

I will not use any Viton needle in a customer's carburetor.

Sent you a PM

Many of the Viton tipped needles do not the rest of the needle a heavy metal such as stainless steel. It is plastic or aluminum. They don't have enough weight to drop from the seat if there is any gum or varnish one either the seat or needle. It takes abrasion and a strong cleaner to remove all traces if gum or varnish. If clean they will be okay until more gum/varnish deposits and the liquid evaporates. Then they will stick in the last position. Solid metal needles have much more weight and therefore take a lot more gum to stick them.

Thanks Everyone. I did put her back together tonight with the Viton needle. She ran great and purred like a kitten. She sounded the best since I have had her.

I guess the needle probably was stuck as mentioned by some of you earlier. I will tinker with her the next few days and see how she runs.

I would still like to replace the Viton rubber tip needle with a steel one soon. Thanks for the help and information.

I do wonder now if there is a trick to using the choke for these older model Chevrolets? I heard from someone there is a certain technique. Thoughts?

Bob

The fuel valve pictured is the Parker Brothers style. I won't argue with others whose opinions I respect concerning their value or quality, but we used them for 40 years with NO issues on literally thousands of carburetors.

The point to this post is: the Parker Brothers valve, in addition to using the flat neopreme end on the plunger, used an inverted flare in the seat. You CANNOT replace this plunger with a metal one. If you replace, you will have to replace both the plunger and the seat. The original style metal valve will NOT fit in this seat.

Jon.

Thanks Carbking.

I did not know about the Parker Brothers.

I will run it a while and see how it goes.

I understand about the needle and seat. I would not replace one without replacing with the correct match.

Thanks.

Bob

Should you wish to learn more about the various styles of fuel valves used, this link to our website explains most of them:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Fuel_valves.htm

Jon.

By the way. I did have to reset my float. It was a 1/4" off. I adjusted it to 3/4".

Bob