VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 1931 Brake shoe clean up

1931 4dr sedan. I decided to take apart the rear brakes because they were sticking. Shoes off now. There are two pivot pins that go through the backing plate. They look like they should have retaining rings behind the backing plate to hold them. Mine don't have any thing holding them in place. Does anyone know if the original installation included retaining rings?
Also. Filling station has an install pack of 14 felt washers for brake systems on these cars. Where do they go? It's hard to tell from the picture. Are they on the rods?
Thanks,
Bud Higgins
31 4 dr sedan.

Yes the brake shoe anchor pins should have locks on them. The felt washers are for the brake camshafts.

Thanks Steve!

The next step was removing the backing plate and now I see where the felt washers go. Mine were pretty torn up. Ordered the 14 washer set. Behind the service brake connection to the rear wheel there is a thin wafer steel ring and a steel cup ring to hold the felt washer. What order and orientation do they install? In the process of removing all the gunk and road dirt, I'm now not sure how I took them off. I think it was - from wheel backing plate, wafer thin steel washer, steel cup ring (with felt washer facing toward the cam operating lever), cam operating lever, then the outside felt washer steel cup with felt facing the cam lever, then lock washer and nut. What worries me is that then the felt washers butt up against the cam lever surfaces which seems to be a recipe for tearing up the new washers. Is the felt supposed to be oiled? Should the nut be cranked down tight to seal off the felt in the cups? Or kept loose? I think the way mine was previously installed, or because of the bad felts, or the road grime, the cam lever point was the reason my brakes were sticking. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I believe you have the order of installation correct. My manual states to "saturate" the felts with "transmission grease". I would use a heavy oil such as 85/140 but then wipe any excess off as when tightening it will squeeze out.

Thanks again Steve!

Have you received the washer kit from the Filling Station yet? I remember it coming with very detailed instructions on how to replace the washers. They may have the details on their web site technical section.

Dave

Dave,
I've not gotten the filling station package just yet. The instructions are not on filling stations website. Do the instructions say to soak the felts in transmission oil?
Bud

I don't think so but it has been a few years. I will see if I can find the instructions, I saved them but have moved since.

Dave

I found the instructions, no mention of oiling the felts. Give them a call I am sure they will clear it up if you are still concerned.

Dave

Most non-oem suppliers usually advise " install per instructions in the service manual" which is what I quoted above.

Not exactly sure the purpose of the felt seals.

Are they intended to keep dust and dirt out? If so then they should be oiled, like the pads in early air cleaners.

If they are to keep oil and grease out then they should be installed dry.

Many heavy trucks with air brakes have the felt seals and a retainer same as the Chevy style. They keep the dust and dirt out and are lubricated by the grease from the slack adjusters. I believe the dry felts will deteriorate quickly.

Chipper,
These are the felt seals that fit around the service brake shoe cam shaft - outside the brake housing on the back of the backing plate. This is a critical brake sticking point - meaning if the cam doesn't rotate freely, the brakes stick against the brake drum and don't return to being off the hub. Service manual says to use "transmission oil" to soak the felts. I'll buy a bottle of gear oil as Steve suggested above and use it to saturate the felts before installing. There's more to it though. My collar on my adjusting levers have some irregularities - not entirely smooth - where the felts rub against the levers - so they probably need to be lubricated, or ground smooth. I've already rubbed smooth all the flanges that hold the felts, removed years of road dust, and am now waiting for the new felts to arrive. Seems like an awful design to have this critical pivot point ride on oil saturated felts that rub on the adjusting levers that way. I'll also have to judge how tight to tighten the back nut on the service cam to keep out the dirt, and still allow free play of the shaft. I'll let you know how it comes out.

The area where the nut goes on is shouldered so I believe it will bottom out when tightened and the lock washer is secured and it will not bind the cam. The shim washer is for adjusting for looseness-you want the cam to turn freely but very little in and out play. Also check the bushings in the housing for the cam-it should rotate freely and smoothly.

I received my felt washers today. The instructions didn't mention oiling but I did anyways. Now I see that the felts are big enough (inside dimension) to go around the center bushing of the levers. I didn't tighten the nut all the way - just enough to flatten the lock washer. The levers return nicely with only the brake spring tension now. Since the surface of the levers doesn't provide a completely flat surface for,the felts - there is a manufactured ridge in the housing there - the felt washer ( inside its collar) doesn't sit quite flat against the lever. I guess thats the way it's designed to work though. Thanks for all the help! Tomorrow- retighten all the adjustments on the shoes, recenter the cam, and take a test drive. I hope this solves my brakes locking up. I was afraid to drive out on the road with all the tailgaters here in Northern Virginia. I was afraid someone was gonna smash into me after an unanticipated wheel lockup.

If you have not read the post by CraigA "questions about my "new" confederate" you might want to do so. It has information regarding the brake adjustment that may be of interest to you.

Good to know.