VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 SECOND SERIAL NUMBER LOCATION

I own two 1951 Chevys. Both Styleline Deluxe Models.
One is a 2 door sedan, the other is a Sport Coupe ( business coupe in my book ).
I am having an ongoing problem, 7 months now, with the North Carolina DMV, regarding the TYPE AND SIZE OF MY SERIAL NUMBER TAG and the ATTACHMENT PROCEDURE (screws, spot welds or rivets ) OF MY SERIAL NUMBER TAG.
See my other post ..... 1951 CHEVROLET CAR SERIAL NUMBER.
Additional information was added today to the above thread.

I have just finished a conversation with the SUPERVISOR of the NC DMV INSPECTORS ...... they now want to view my SEOND SERIAL NUMBER location, on the car.
I have never known of a second serial number on a 1951 passenger car ....... has anyone else known of or seen a second serial number location on a 1951 passenger car ????

Thanks,
Bob.

Jeeze.... Have you asked these people why every other state in the USA has no problem registering 1951 Chevrolets, but they seem to screw it up? Maybe the problem is them and not your car or you. Perhaps if one of them took a few minutes to do some research they'll hit upon this thread on the Vintage Chevrolet Club of America website, and realize that every owner of a Vintage Chevy in the country is shaking their head at just how bad your state's DMV is at doing their job.

I really feel for you, Bob... I thought you had this problem beat.


Is there any chance he means the engine # as the second serial #?

Never heard of a second location for a serial number on a '51. Invite them down to take a look. Might also be time for a call to your locally elected official who represents you at the state level. Sounds like you have a DMV official with time on his/her hands and not a lot of knowledge about antique vehicles.

The DMV Supervisor is speaking about a second serial number. I know LATER models have a hidden second serial number, but not 1951, as I recall.
I began doubting myself, thus my question here.
First it was the serial number. They said it should have been spot welded on, rather than riveted.
Pictures of other 1951 serial number tag's submitted to me, were forwarded to Raleigh, then all was quiet.
Then, they said my serial number tag did not look like the serial number tag in the illustration, figure 61, in the front of the GM Service Manual.
Last December / January I received two notes from the Inspector of the DMV, stating all was finished, done.
Today the Supervisor wants another serial number location to be viewed, because my EXISTING SERIAL NUMBER TAG was installed with bogus rivets, in their opinion.
So, we have gone from spot welds to incorrect serial number tag to bogus rivets.
Obviously, the two letters from the Inspector last December / January were meaningless.

The lack of knowledge on the part of the NC DMV has been very disturbing.

I believe this has really gotten to the level of harassment.

7 months now, since this first began.

Last fall, they stated they COULD revoke my newly presented title and license plates.

This is serious and very upsetting to me.

The car in the avatar is the subject.

The problem here is you need to be really nice and cooperative with this guy as he holds all the cards and ticking him off could make it worse. Ask him where the second serial # is that he requires.

Could you get the inspector in touch with a VCCA Tech Advisor? Better still a letter on letterhead from VCCA stating the proper tag fastening, serial# range and stating there is no 2nd location and that your serial# tag looks original and unaltered. If it were me they'd also get a quick letter from my lawyer stating the above and nicely asking what else is needed to get closure on this.

Often if they have something physical to put into their file, they will be happy.

Is the Supervisor at a local DMV office? If so, I suggest having a friendly chat with the state DMV office and ask them to refer you to one of their employees who is an expert at registering vintage cars.

Another suggestion is to get in touch with a license plate dealer in your area and ask his opinion.

When I registered my '28 with Year of Manufacture license plates, the dealer that I bought them from told me to go to a specific DMV office and ask for a certain guy, because this guy was in the hobby himself and an expert who would guide me through the process.

I did so and it was smooth sailing. Some folks at local DMV offices don't know everything, even though they think so!

Good luck! Dean

Thanks for your comments, I have been civil, but am very unhappy that I received a "letter of good bye and all is OK" from the DMV last December / January and now we're starting all over again.

Truth is, its very difficult to be civil, being that this upcoming "get together" with the DMV will be the 4th time in 7 months ..... re-hashing items I had believed to be resolved.

Problem here is the DMV is convinced of the hidden serial number and they want to scrape, sand and search, until they find the non existent hidden serial number.
Being that this car was professionally restored a few years back, I will not be in agreement to scrape and sand for something not there.
I have a letter into the VCCA advisor and my attorney's retired partner is a car guy. They are aware of my current situation with the DMV.

Your thoughts are helpful. It wasn't too long ago that I could call my local DMV on the phone, when concerns or questions arose. Now, the calls are all answered by the answering machine, with no option available to speak to anyone. My only options to get any answers are to walk in, stand in a long line or create a fax. No other options left for customers.

Right now, I would be very pleased if someone out in VCCA LAND could provide me with a pic of their 1949 to 1952 CHEVROLET TRUCK SERIAL NUMBER TAG ! It could help my case.

I bought my '51 coupe in NC. The serial number is riveted. The original NC title shows the engine number and the serial number of the car. Those are the only two numbers on the title. At some point the engine and serial numbers were combined (by mistake) and it caused me a lot of problems getting the car titled in Virginia. I had to send the title back to the seller and he took it to DMV and finally got it straightened out.

I feel your pain.

For truck info contact the VCCA advisor for 47-55 first series trucks Bob Adler Email bobadler@nycap.rr.com Phone 518-733-5749
He had a yard full of trucks last I knew so may be able to help with the photo.

Thanks Steve, will do.

In addition, I have reached out to Bill Dirnberger, the '51 and '52 VCCA Tech Advisor, via email.

I asked for a VCCA statement indicating how, by Chevrolet standards, my serial number tag is attached to the A pillar, and what the serial number tag looks like ..... and IF there is an existing "hidden serial number" on the '51.

Only looking for factual Chevrolet answers to the above 3 items.

Have not heard back, thus far, perhaps too soon to expect a reply, but every minute counts now.

The NC DMV is back on the same kick again, have not heard from them since the end of December / beginning of January.

I did receive a letter in December from the DMV INSPECTOR, stating he was finished and the RALEIGH NC DMV was satisfied. I now see that letter carried no validity.

According to the NC DMV sources*, the tag is (1) spot welded to the A pillar, (2) the serial number tag should look like the tag in figure 61 , in the serial number location section of the '49 to '53 SERVICE MANUAL ..... and (3) the '51 has a "hidden serial number stamping".

*I did have a note, stating WHO the NC DMV uses for their vehicle information, but that note has vanished.

The above 3 items is what I'm currently up against now.

It is my thought TECH ADVISOR Bill Dirnberger could / would put a factual VCCA note together, stating the CHEVROLET facts / procedures of those 3 items of concern.

Being told the newly issued NC title can be revoked, along with the new license plates is not easy to absorb.

I have a 1949 GMC and a 1953 Chevrolet 6500. GMC uses clutch screws, the '53 uses rivets. I can provide photos if it will help. Both '51 passenger cars I have also use rivets.

I would certainly appreciate pics of the 1953 truck serial number tag, along with your 1951 Chevrolet serial number tags.

Please send the pics to my email address .....

bobg 1951 chevy @ ellijay. com

Spaces in email address are for clarity only.
No spaces in actual email address.

Thanks, Raleigh.

email sent.

Raleigh,
Thanks very much.

Steve,
Had contact with Bob Badler, thanks for the heads up.

BOB

Bill Dirnberger did contact me about your question. I am sure he will be getting back to you soon.

Bob,
I will email you a pic of my serial number tag.I'm not aware of a secondary location, but as we all know there is a body tag showing body # and trim numbers on the cowl (riveted) as well as an engine number on the block. Back in the day before vins, some states used engine numbers (e.g. NE, KS, etc)

Another "out of the box" suggestion--if all efforts fail with your state congressman and attorney fail, could you register the car and title it in another state using your current title? I realize the car would have to be moved there as most states require a number verification of out of state vehicles, but this would take NC completely out of the picture. Maybe you still have family in OH or elsewhere?? Might also be helpful to contact some NC VCCA members to find out what numbers they used to register their cars there.

Good luck.

I am not aware of a second location for the car serial number on a 1951 Chevrolet.

Let me through this into the mix. On another forum, there was an owner of a 1952 4 Door Deluxe who, in Missouri, was trying to title his car where the title was lost and that had a replaced engine. The story goes that the state patrol there found another serial number stamped in the top flat area of the frame. He explained it this way, "The stamp is located on the top of the driver's side frame, just forward of the midframe body mounts. It could also be described as just "in" from the door post on a 4 door car." He provided this photo taken with a mirror. I looked on both of my cars, but found nothing but I may have been looking in the wrong place. Now that I have another '51, maybe I should check it as well.

The general knowledge is on US cars the first to have a serial number stamped on top of the frame was the 1955.

1953 chevy corvettes definitely were stamped on the frame, just under where the drivers buttock would reside. the machine that stamped the vin # on all c-1,2 AND 3 CORVETTES WAS DONE IN A MANNER THAT DENTED THE UNDERSIDE OF THE FRAME(THE MACHINE CLAMPED THE FRAME AND WHEN THE STAMPING OCCURED, THE UNDERSIDE OF THE STAMPING MACHINE SLIGHTLY DENTED THE UNDERSIDE OF THE FRAME. SORRY FOR THE CAPITALS-I'M TOO LAZY TO GO BACK AND CORRECT IT) mike

Thanks, Gene.

I did speak with Bill, am sending him info on Sunday.

Thanks for the info, Rick.