VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Continuous Dead Battery

Hey everyone. 1941 Master Deluxe, Unrestored Original. Took my car to a car show on Saturday. Started and drove fine. With car running, and attempt to turn car off, I discovered that the key can be removed in the run position, with car running. I then turned the car off. 2 hours later, attempted to start car, brand new 6 volt battery, dead. Earlier in the day I adjusted the voltage regulator so it produced 7.3-7.8 volts. Upon acceleration the car, the volts went to 8.2 volts. From what I understand, my new headlamps were too bright, and the hi beams no longer worked, thus my direction to adjust the voltage regulator. Back to my main point. Did I perhaps remove the key too soon, even though car turned off, thus keeping the ignition in the "accessory" position, and draining the battery. Was this the problem leading to a dead battery, or something I messed up in the voltage regulator adjustment? Sorry, long posting to get to the point? Or was this TMI? Thanks
Gus.....

It is not unusual to be able to remove the key with the engine running, depends on the depths of the key cuts. There is no accessory position in a 1941 ignition switch.
With that being said an ignition switch could be left in the on position for two hours with out causing the battery to go dead....unless some accessory was also on at that time.
The cut out (circuit breaker) in the voltage regulator may stick closed, thus draining the battery.

I agree with Chevgene, I just went thru pretty much the same scenario. I thought the ignition switch was bad but found the cut-out switch had a melt down.

When you get back into the car, check the amp meter and see if the needle is in the discharge position. This would indicate that the points in the cut-out switch are stuck together allowing the battery to try and turn the generator thus draining the battery.

I will try the things you have suggested. Would purchasing a replacement voltage regulator ($65.00) solve the issue? Do the new regulators already come pre gapped and all set to go? Would spraying contact cleaner on the regulator solve the problem? (Why does this Gus ask so many questions?). Only being in this since Oct of 2014, I feel I am even "pre-green".

There are other items that could be causing the problem so I can't say anything for sure.
A new regulator will be adjusted.
Your present 8 volts is still too high.

I bent the prong holding the last spring, the one on far right while looking at it straight on, to the point where the spring feels "floppy" on the regulator and still get that 8 volt reading on increasing the rpm's on the engine. Is a new VR the problem solver...But as you noted...It could be a number of other things going on.

Because of the previous adjustment of the regulator it sounds like you now probably need a new voltage regulator. That is a place to start anyway.

The amp meter on the dash, with the engine off and key out, shows a discharge value on the dash amp meter. How do I free up the points in the cut-out switch?

First thing to do is to disconnect the battery. Then, if the points are stuck in the voltage regulator, replace the voltage regulator.

If stuck points are the problem then your generator is sitting there having a melt down so you need to disconnect the battery immediately.

With everything connected, my battery went from 6.22 volts to 5.77 volts in about 10 minutes. I have since dc'ed the battery...

Also to note, with the car running, the battery side of the coil, with the VR cover off, the battery points, far left side, are extremely hot to the touch. The gen points and the field points are always closed. Should there be a time when the engine is off that these points might be open, and is there a procedure to set a gap on the gen and field points.
My 1941 shop manual, p. 262, has various steps to determine if units are operating properly.

Follow the steps in your shop manual to see if the various units are working correctly.

JUst bite the bullet and order a new Delco Remy voltage regulator.

!!!

I have been following this thread as I am having a similar opportunity with my '48. I have a new battery & Changed the Voltage Regulator.
Battery is reading 6.58 Volts after charging for 2 hours. Started with no problem. Checked the Generator output at idle and is reads 6.50+/-. I accelerate and the Generator drops off to 3.67 +/-. I check the voltage regulator and it is reading about the same as the Generator.

My old regular on the Battery side the points show evidence of being hot as there are warped parts and the metal shows bluing from being hot.

Tomorrow I am hoping to pick up a condenser for the generator.

Is the generator output correct ? If not any ideas ?


I hope this is clear. I am taking two generators to the shop for rebuild.

If I should post this in the '48 Forum let me know.

Condenser for the generator?
A condenser is installed on the generator to eleminate radio static.
I would suspect your generator has a bad brush holder spring, brush or?

Backroads stopped by today. After going over what I have done and testing, it came up that there was a slight sparking at one of the brushes. I suspect that you are correct Chev Nut, weak brush spring. Waiting for the engine to cool then I'll change to a rebuilt generator.

Is it possible to buy a new Delco Remy regulator? I thought the only new ones for sale are the no-name ones with no adjustments.

Rock Auto has them....yes, then are still made. Have one on my car.

Wow, that is great to know because I have seem some really bad, new, no-name junk ones.

UPDATE: Installed rebuilt generator. FYI, the mounting bracket has a front and a back ! I fixed that, it won't be put in backwards again. Jumpered between the BAT and and ARM to set the negative ground ( after I had started and shut off unfortunately ) Every thing hooked up. Started engine. Used multi-meter on Battery 6.43 Volts, Tested at Generator 0.03 / 0.06., Tested at BAT and ARM on regulator 6.43 Volts. Acceleration does not seem to change anything. I'm not comfortable that the rebuilt generator is working correctly. Thoughts ?

Did you polarize the generator? Your values indicate the generator is not working. Some require a quick touch of wire from positive post on battery to generator output wire to polarize the field coils.

From his description it sounds like he did polarize the generator.

I jumpered between the BAT and ARM on the voltage regulator.

To polarize jump between Gen and Batt terminals on regulator. I just short across with the blade of a screw driver and make a spark.
Disconnect and try again.