VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Trailered or Driven (Part II)

I have brought up this subject a long time ago. It was talked to death then but may be of some interest again. Don't know. You may want to just skip it. Read at your own risk.

(Note: I looked at the forums. Thee ain't nothing much going on right now anyway. so...

I was thinking about the long, long way some of you may have to bring your cars out to Lake Tahoe for judging and the difference the trip cam make on a car that is driven (DR) vs one that is trailered i. e. Trailer Queen (TQ). I expect that the TQ will be in more prestine condition than one that is a DR depending on the actual distance and the road conditions it has to navigate. Accordingly, the DR will not stand a chance against the TW and it shouldn't.

There is something to be said in support of the TQS. The owners have enough pride in their project(s) and cash to afford them nice trailers for transport. To do so is commendable.

There is somethin positive to say about the DRs too. I like the thought of keeping the old Chevrolet as presentable as possible and for the thrill of driving it now and then. I do no that you can't drive a 216, for example, and keep it too.
The "too" pretains to keeping the engine clean from oil seapage and the manifold presentable, much less the interior, paint, and undercarriage.

Seems hardly fair to judge both the cars with an equal eye to presentation. How about the follwoing for a solution:

The Drs are judged separately from the TQs. The DRs will be awarded the great big, expensive trophies. The TQ's will then be judged and awarded a grille emblem that says (VCCA National Tahoe 16). That then will show that the car made it all the way even though it was trailered. The DRs will be awarded for their willingness to chance all kinds of issues for the trip.

The nice trophies will go in the living room. The grille emblems can go in the trailer and sit in darkness with the Queen.

I know this won't sit well with the TQ members but I just have to wholeheartedly support those who drive theirs cars for many, many miles. The adventure of the trip is not enough. The effort must be rewarded.

What do you think?

Charlie

BTW: If I had a relatively high point car, I would probably make it a TQ for such a long trikp from here to Lake Tahoe. I would be willing to settle for the grille emblem in defference to a otherwise nicely restored car that has been driven there. Would too!

BTW2: The owners of the TQs would get a handshake from BB. The DRs wouldn't be elegible for this stunning experience. That, then, should balance everything out nicely.





I

Now Charlie this food fight has been long quiet. Now ya gone and started it back up again. Let the "food fight" be resumed.

A trailer queen as you call it was designed for one purpose, to compete for the best of the best. I've been to Camaro shows where the car is rolled out of the trailer, jacked up, covers removed from their tires & sat on plush carpet pads. Never to be driven or for that matter started & ran. I have 2 different cars I could bring to the show but I choose to transport them in an enclosed trailer. Coming from Tucson Az. at the start of August, knowing I have to go through Death Valley California with neither cars having air conditioning has no interest to me plus I really don't think some of the public understands our world & become jealous. I don't need that either. Neither are a trailer queen. One is a new restore (1933 Chevrolet) & the other is an older restore (1968 Z/28) but left the factory with 4.56 tail gears. There's not enough fuel stations between here & there to drive that one.
I commend all those who do drive there cars to this show. Maybe if I didn't have the cars I do than the thought could be different...Joe

If I had a few more weeks vacation to tack on to either end of my current 2 weeks off for this trip, I'd make it a family drive. Getting a 2yr old to sit in a car for much more than an hour or 2 at a time is not something to experiment with 1000 miles from home though. My '51 will ride the trailer to Tahoe this year, and if I have it broken in, it will be doing the driving tours as well.

As for the awards... there is a drivers class to participate in. My '51 received it's Drivers Class medal in Flint 2011. I have had it mounted with pride on the license plate since then. This week I received noticed that it is NOT allowed to be on the car if I'm going to have it class judged in Tahoe. Okay... to the bookshelf it goes!

I guess we should start by discussing semantics. IMHO the term Trailer Queen denotes a vehicle that only comes off the trailer when it arrives at a specific location. It only gets driven from garage to trailer/trailer to parking spot/parking spot to trailer/trailer to garage. Just because a vehicle sometimes ends up on a trailer does not make it a TQ. My reasons for trailering my '38 on long trips are:
1: If something happens to break I can't go to the local Autozone and buy most parts. If I'm far enough from home to make a rescue difficult it goes on the trailer.
2: People were not my size in 1938, After about 30 minutes behind the wheel the "fun" of driving becomes a whole lot less than "fun". If it's going to take more than a couple of hours to get somewhere it goes on the trailer.
3: I have a very low original mile 78 year old car. Why put miles on it just to say I put miles on it? When we go on tours we'll often drive 500 miles during the week on the tour. Adding an additional 1200 getting there and back home just to say I did it is obtuse.

I completely agree with Tiny, and am in the same situation...

When we had Corvairs I would drive to the meets and have it judged, they give the cars driven extra points depending on how many miles you drove to get the meet. I received second place several times but 1st place was always a TQ.
Have since got judging out of my system, touring is what we enjoy.
PS. That was Corsa the national Corvair club.

I am borrowing my dad's enclosed trailer to bring my 72 Monte Carlo that is all original. It is not a complete TQ. But I am 27 and don't have the time to take the chance of having a break down with the Monte. It is alot easier to fix my truck if something happens. Plus I rather enjoy my XM radio to instead of AM

When we were going to Corvair conventions tin the late 80s and 90s I did not own a trailer and we usually drove 2 Corvair to get everything you needed with 2 kids. So a TQ was not an option for us.

Hey Charlie, hows it going? only a few months to go until we meet at Hershey again, I have to remind "Joe Pesche" to watch his language AGAIN!

Over the years I have and still do participate in many clubs and many "Nationally Judged" activities. While in theory in a perfect world your idea seems like it would be fair, but not everyone is honest!

I had been at an event that offered a separation between trailered and driven cars. As we were leaving the event we saw the winner of the driven class vehicles loading his car on a trailer a few miles away. There is no way to really police it and it is nice to think everyone is honest, but.... it is competition so that does tend to bring the worse out in some people

In this case his car was not as nice (not even close) as the trailered cars but much nicer then any of the driven cars.

You also need to factor in that the competition level in the VCCA might not be as tough as it is in other organizations that the owner of a TQ might compete in also. So as long as they are playing in those leagues as well, a trailer is the only way to keep the car competitive at that level.

Last month at the AACA Grand National in Williamsport PA there was around 650 cars. In one class alone there were over 20 cars going for their first GN!. Two of those cars happened to be the VCCA BOTB winners the past two years. Everyone of those cars in that class were just as nice as the next. They had rather stiff competition each time they were shown in the AACA. I also saw those cars move through the VCCA system with no other cars in their class. They could most likely could have driven them and still did well in the VCCA, with the exception of the BOTB. At Williamsport they would not have stood a chance if they were driven after the earned their VCCA awards, the competition was that tough. Also it can take much longer to get your car to that level in the AACA, it can take a few years and each year the restoration becomes that much older while there are five or six fresh cars in your class.

I sort of resent the term trailer queen, mostly because it is seldom used in a positive manner, when it really should be. The owner should be complemented for doing a great job, but most of the time they are resented because they have "the" better car.

We have to admit in many things that involve competition, the guy who spends the most money and most time has a better shot of winning, it is just a fact.
Charlie, as you know I own cars on both ends of the spectrum, you have seen a few of the "driver ones" I had taken to Hershey over the years. Each one has their own level of fun. I happen to enjoy the high competition, or show end a little more.

I admit that I am fortunate to be able to afford to play at that level. I can't really go much further with my Biscayne then it is now so I just made a decision to do a full blown restoration on my 60 Impala. I owned the car for almost 30 years and I drove that car out to the VCCA 40th Anniversary Meet in Springfield IL. Then we took second place with 5 cars in the class, and it was a great feeling. Not that I won second, but that we drove a family of 5 half way across the country and back and we made it with no problems. Now I am 15 years older and the thought of driving 1200 miles without A/C and lumbar seats is not a consideration. At that point of my life like Dens41 it was not an option, the trailer was cheap part of the equation, it was the tow vehicle that is the $$.$$$$.
At that meet I met a guy who became one of my close friends who sadly is no longer with us. His car was a TQ 60 Flat-top who took first place in that class at Springfield. After that meet he became an active VCCA member, started a region, and even started the annual VCCA Hershey Picnic, which used to be hosted at his home. A few years after his passing his wife contacted me and asked me to help her sell that car. Turned out the car was sold to a guy who lives near me here on Long Island. I saw the car for the first time last week at a local cruise night and spoke with the new owner for some time. He just drives it, but he has no interest in shows or clubs, just likes the look of it. The car is starting to show some wear and tear from the use, it was done almost 20 years ago.
We drove out with a group, and in that group was another friend who drove his 60 Nomad out with us, sadly he too is no longer with us.
Now after owning this Impala all these years I have decided to restore it. It then will be a TQ also, because I participate in different clubs. Like my other TQ everything is new or rebuilt from the engine to the axle bearings, and is more dependable then most drivers.

John,

You made a great point on the title "Trailer Queen." I don't know what to call them that would convey the concept as well. Not all cars that are trailered are included in the picture I'm trying to bring to everyone's mind.

I guess Tiny came close to what I mean. See his post above.

I'm not taking shots at TQs per se. They have their place and certainly should be judged for what they are. If one is just as it may have sat on the dealer's showroom floor then that is a good thing. Keeping it that way means housing it in best of conditions and enclosed trailering it to shows.

The ones driven across the country from say ... NC to Lake Tahoe and just completed restroation and are in concurs condition (read showroom) touch my heart, That to me is the epitime of what the club should be about. Of course they won't compete with the ones at the top of the line that are trailered (enclosed etc). That is a given. I just think they should be judged in a separate catagory so that the fair wear and tear is not a detriment to it being driven.

I guess there is no good way to solve the problem. To some, sinning the top trophy is the driving force and to others the pleasure of hearing that old 4, 6 or V8 humming along at speed whilst it counts off mile marker after mile marker, along with the adventure that comes with the unknown problem is paramount.

My hat is off to both those trailered in order to keep them prestine and to those driven also.

Back in 75 I drove the project car from here in Fayetteville, NC to Fort Worth, then to Phonix, then up to Denver (Well, I was actually pulled by Big Richie's 57 Chevrolet station wagon. I think it had a 235 in it) then on to Star Valley in Weatern Wy and then back home from there. I broke down three times (slung a fan blace in Wy, trace and fix a taillight short in NC mountains. Few weeks later up to Dunkirk Ny. But lost a wheel (rim) in MD, Transmission in western PA and had to fix the generator (brush) in DC on the way back. So where is the adventure now days. I don't know. As most of you do, I also think of all the things I've done with the old cars but wouldn't do now.

Best regards and will provide refuge from the storms at Hershey as in the past. Peshi too.

I appreciate all those who have read and responded to the initial post. I wish I could meet and hug all of your wives.

Charlie

I drove my 47 Aero 220 miles (150 in the rain) to Williamsport for the AACA show. I did not stand a chance of winning parked next to a "over the top restored vehicle" that came in a trailer. No sour grapes as that car was a piece of art, but I doubt the owner will experience the joy of driving the car on the highway for many miles as I do. In fact we took 5 more days and drove our car another 700 miles touring in PA. Next month we will drive approx. 200 miles (one way)to attend the 53rd Central Meet. Just love to drive them. That love all started in 1976 when we drove our 47 Four dr Fleetline to the 15th Anniv meet in Colorado Springs. Approx 3500 miles round trip. Enjoyed every mile with the exception of going thru Kansas in 95 degree heat. To all those people who drive them I can only say "Good for you and keep those wheels rolling"
Dick

Charlie,
I really don't care for the term "trailer queen" but it seems to be the one that has been used.
Driving a vintage car across country is an accomplishment for both the vehicle and the owner. Ironically the two times I had an insurance claim both involved the trailer. The rep from Haggerty told me other then windshields that damage to the vehicle on an open trailer and loading and unloading were the most common claims.

I think Trailer Queen and Museum Piece are somewhat synonymous. They always have a sign that says "Do Not Touch Unless You Are Naked" (or something to that effect).

I certainly admire the effort that goes into one, but the owners are definitely missing out on the fun of driving and getting nonstop thumbs up from the adoring public.

Cheers, Dean

I like the good old days. After a five year restoration of our '31 Sport Coupe I drove our '31 from Dayton, Ohio to the Hershey Meet. There were 140 1930 - 1935 all makes of cars in our class and I we received a Second Junior Award. I appreciated the award. The car that received the First Place Award was a 1930 Chrysler Dual Cowl Pheaton. Those were the fun times.

Hey Dean,
I think there is a huge difference between museum cars and show cars. Most museum cars are 15 footers, nobody really gets closer than that to them. They seldom require any detail under the hood because it never is opened, same with the trunk and the chassis area. They also mechanically are in very poor condition because they seldom move or even need to move under their own power. Where as when most of the trailered show cars are restored many of the owners plans are to drive the car after it gets all the awards it can, so they are restored mechanically as well (not all, but I would say a majority are) It is a shame but many of the owners for one reason or another never really follow that game plan and the cars remain trailered show cars, I am guilty of that myself.

I think your assuming that people who own trailered show cars don't have fun or enjoy what that aspect of the hobby has to offer, or even own other cars that they do use as drivers.
Look at it the other way, how would you feel is someone said,
I can't believe all the fun owners of driver cars are missing by not showing at major shows

My point is everyone has a different idea of what fun is.

Yes Backroads, those were the days! I remember driving down to Hershey with my Dad in his Model A and his 39 Pontiac.

By the way I don't own a "Don't touch unless you are naked" sign

Most of the geezers I see at shows these days, I wouldn't want to see naked anyway.

Very true! never really cared to the "geezers" but I also would take a pass at seeing the "geezets" That's why i don't own the sign1

I also think the term "trailer queen" has a derogatory connotation to it. It implies that the car is too good to be driven and enjoyed and only exists to collect trophies.
I just bought an enclosed trailer even though none of my cars would judge very highly in competition. My reasons? For many years I've driven my cars thousands of miles to shows but now I'd rather treat them more carefully and not subject them to the road rash or the risk of today's texting drivers. Due to health reasons, I no longer want to have to make roadside repairs, like changing broken valve springs in my 409 between NJ and NC! When I get to a convention, THEN I can enjoy my car by driving it locally for a cruise or whatever. And while I'm home, I can use them whenever I want to for local events. There's always AAA if needed.

Verne

Very True Verne! The car does better on a long trip then I do!

The trailer is cheap, the tow vehicle is the money part of the whole thing. My trailer also becomes a second garage for storage.

After the event is over I pretty much had my fill of the car, and the thought of sitting in it and sweating driving it home, kind of takes the fun away. I found it more enjoyable sitting for 2 hours to go over the GW Bridge with A/C seats and XM radio,then sticking to my vinyl seats rocking a clutch

In my earlier post I had mentioned a situation where the owner said he drove the cars to the show to be in the driven class and was seen loading on a trailer afterward. You were at that meet in Mt Laurel NJ it was awhile back I think in 1984 or 1985? Maybe even 1983? The early 80's were the best years for our cars, NOS parts were out there, everyone was into it much more then now. it was a real good scene.
I hope you feel better Verne

I have to share my feelings about this trailer queen subject.....

When I bought my 1956 truck back in 2001, I bought it with the intensions of driving it and having fun, it had a lot of originality and had one repaint in it's life, down the road from me was a body shop owned by an older fellow that over the years has done some top notch body work, I drooled and wanted my truck to look the way his cars did and he said he would do my body work, so the restoration begin, 10 years later and lots of time and money it was finally done, Now with him being picky and me being picky I went over the top....

So begins the thought of do I drive this with all I went thru or should I try and take the truck to some National shows to at least let others see my restored 56, I even went as far as paving my driveway and thinking of driving it instead of taking it to shows, it's been 5 years since the truck has been completed, of all the hours and time that went into my truck other than the body work I did all the rest, so to came to the conclusion of taking it to National shows AACA and eventually VCCA, so I bought the trailer, then the Diesel truck both Used, so needless to say I have poured a lot of Money into this project.....

I even purchased a 1967 Truck during the restoration and drove it every summer and had fun driving it, but I needed a New Garage for all my stuff and sold it a few years back, including my 56 and it's a climate controlled one....

I went to the AACA Spring Meet Auburn this past May and got my First Junior and had a great time being with others that I'm sure have went thru what I went thru to get to this point, I just know that if I drive my truck it won't stay the same condition it's in now, I figure because I went thru the Gauntlet on restoring this truck I feel like it's part of the family, If I had just bought the truck all restored I probrably wouldn't be so attached only thru the cost of the money...

So I know now I can keep it tucked away in it's own garage and I have the trailer setup, because of me and my wife still working, I plan on going to 2 shows next year, back to Auburn to get the Senior and I would like to try an event with the VCCA...

After I get some shows under my belt I will probrably start venturing out and driving it, just like I wanted to in the first place..

So when you see my truck come off the trailer it doesn't mean I don't Want to drive it, I do, but not at this point, I never want to restore another vehicle and go thru all the things I went thru to get to this point, So this is my 1 and only chance to take it to the National Shows and see just How Good Of a Restoration I Did...Rooney3100


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Rooney,

You make a strong case for those who choose to use and enclosed trailer to tow their cars to events. (I have avoided stamping it as a TQ owing to the sensibilities of those who don't care for that term.)

If I were a judge at some important event, I would have to give the higher points to the car that was showroom fresh no matter the miles driven or towed to the event. But it would cause me to reflect on the mindset of the car that may have started out just as fresh but owing to being driven to the event was not as fresh as one towed in an enclosed trailer and thus not suffering the perils of road wear and tear.

There is something to be said for both show cars:

a. The trailered car is a better example of what the car was like on the showroom floor. It is a delight to see such a vehicle.

b. The driven car is a better example of a car lightly used but pampered just the same. It is a delight to see such a vehicle going down the road and viewed by other motorists along the way.

Both the above will bring joy to the owners:

a. The trailered vehicle will bring joy to the owner as he drops the tailgate and unloads the vehicle. It will bring a sence of pride as it is viewed by the public at the event and cause fear in the minds of competitors.

b. The driven vehicle will bring more lasting joy as it rravels along the highways and byways as the driver gets thumbs up from other motorists. It will, however, not make such a "splash" as the trailered vehicle once at the event.

Other things being equal, we must make a decision to delay the "splash" for the more common joy of driving the car down the road as all the trailered ones go by well hidden from the admiring public.

Both choices have their rewards. None of us are in a position or have standing to fault either choice.

You said "I just know that if I drive my truck it won't stay the same condition it's in now..." How true.

Best and thanks for your well thought out post,

Charlie

Charlie you couldn't have described it any better...I feel that since I put 10 years of finding NOS parts, 2 401K loans, building a garage for it, running all over the country finding those hard to find parts, it just makes sense to take the truck to the Points judged level and see just how far it goes, I know that one of the Stipulations for Judging is the quality and cleanliness of the restoration.....

I want to keep it in the condition it's in at least until I retire (trying to pay the house off), which is around 4-5 years from now just in case things go south again and this would pay the house off for sure if I had to sell it, the truck's value is close to what I have in it at this point.....

So when you see a trailer pulling in to 1 of these Points Juding shows just think of what people have went thru to get to this point, I'm sure there are similar stories like mine out there....

After my retirement if I still have my truck comes the BIG QUESTION: Do I start venturing out amongst all the crazies with there CELL PHONES, watch the truck slowly turn back to what it was when I found it, watch all that time and money put into it deteriorate, that is another chapter that I have to really think about, but I know one thing, I will not leave it to someone else so they can drive it and have all the fun, I enjoy driving the Old Trucks a lot and I also like to wrench on them, this truck is brand new and to keep it up and drive it will be another way to enjoy it for sure, especially when you pull to a small store for an ICE CREAM and someone you know say's is that the truck you restored 20 years ago? :)

Rooney and Charlie, thanks for your thoughtful and insightful posts. You have certainly raised my level of understanding about trailered vehicles at a show.

One way to 'have your cake and eat it too' (so to speak) is to build a trailer like this one that displays the vehicle while you tow it. This 'Cinderella' trailer was built by and is owned by Ed Archer in Hayward, CA. I rented him and his trailer to bring Justin home after I made the purchase.



Cheers, Dean

Dean,

Well, shucks, you got me there. That is certainly a way to show your car as you travel along.

Thanks,
Charlie