VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Took my 38 in for brake and parking brake work...

So I brought my 38 in to shop $98/hr and for the below work:
1. Install new front brake lines(stripped nuts using wrong wrench)
2. Bleed brakes
a. Mech said he needs to remove master cylinder to bench bleed
b. I do not see why the master cylinder has to be removed to bench bleed
3. Repair my parking brake
The mechanic tells me a week later without a quote:
1. Installed brake lines
2. Front driver side wheel cylinder leaking(honed and resintalled, but not tested)
a. other 3 wheel cylinders new
b. i would have preferred replace with new, but never informed
3. parking brake pieces missing from both rear wheels
a. I cannot find a diagram of parking brake part
b. Didn't know additional parts specific to parking brake mechanism in each wheel
4. Brake pads need to be arced to the wheel(makes sense to me)

-A week later our conversation started with a quote of $400-700.
-By the end of the phone call the quote increased to $500-1000 without fixing parking brake
-I decided to have him put my car back together and I will pick it up and take it to a brake specialist I was referred to.
**Where can I find a diagram of the parking brake parts?
Thank you
Michael

Any maintenance manuel from 1936-1950.

The parking brake parts are not hard to find. Try "parts wanted" below. Those parts do not wear out. Well, seldom. Somebody in the club will have an extra set.

Go to NAPA or some other source and get repair kits for each wheel cylinder and the master cylinder. Buy new hoses and shoes as well. Get some brake fluid also.

Get yourself some proper size line whenches.

Forget the arching. They will arch themselves. Just drive it across time and hit as many stop-lights as you can. By the time you get back home they will sufficiently arched.

By a good, proper sized cylinder hone. You may opt for new cylinders.

Do each wheel one at a time. Take your time. It is merely an endurance drill. Get a buddy to help you.

Buy some solvent and clean the parts up before reinstallng.

Cost without considering labor will be:

Used parts for parking brakes: $40.
Cylinder kits (wheel & Master $80.
Hone: $30.
Shoes: $50.
Brake Fluid: $10.
Brake hoses: $25.
Solvent: $20.

All total about $250.

I assume you have the parking brake parts not inside the brake drums.

Satisfaction that you saved about $800: Amazingly glorious. About like seeing a Fleetline without a Fulton.

Enjoy the experience and good luck.
Charlie

Hi Michael,

Sadly, this is the general state of our reliance on others to do work for us. Good, professional intentions turn into little disasters. The saddest thing is you may have learned almost nothing about the brake system on your car from the work. These are not the good old days were well trained mechanics worked on your model of car on a daily or weekly basis. Most mechanics have no/little experience on the brake systems of our cars.

Did you provide him the 38 manual for directions? Are you familiar with the manual? Did you schedule your time to be there to overlook the work, and explain the steps in the process?

Let's look at a few of the variables you were up against. First, was your expectations on the cost. If you provided him all new bent lines I would expect it to take atleast 2 to 3 hours of work for the front lines. Assuming everything aligned easily and all the areas he worked in were clean and needed know special attention.

Why didn't you replace all the lines? Lines typically rust also on the inside which you can not see. Best practice is to replace all the lines at the same time.

Bench bleeding is recommended for only a new master cylinder.
I agree all new cylinders would have been best, but you were not there to make the decision and he was probably not warned to call you with any questions?

I agree with the importance of arc sanding your pads.

I assume the mechanic did not loose your parking brake parts so the parking brakes were already not functioning? So you are now trying to ID what is missing? I have a 41 so do not know the differences, but do have a box of 41 brake parts if any are interchangeable. I could provide pictures of all the components to my system. Others should be able to help you.

In your situation I could easily see you paying atleast $1,000 in labor plus parts. Secondly, your new brake specialist should not do any work without a complete inspection of the previous mechanic's work. So make sure you are there to watch and pay for this.

The most important system in our old cars is our brakes. None of our cars should be driven without a complete inspection of its functions. Germany would not license a vehicle without a complete inspection of a car. From a safety standpoint we should be doing the same?

If you do not wish to do the work on your car yourself, then you must be willing to micromanage it. I would not take my car to a mechanic that would not allow me to watch while he is doing the work. I would also have spent a lot of time trying to have a complete understanding of the procedures in the shop manual.

Don't be surprised if you do not have $2000 in labor and parts tied up in your brakes. It is money well spent if you are not going to do the work yourself.

Good luck, Mike

P.S. Have you done an Advanced Search under "Brakes" with the Display Name "Mike Buller"

47 Fleetline Huck Brakes

The main part that typically needs replacing is the wheel cable.



The other parts are the cable threaded rods that connect the wheel cables to a cross shaft (jackshaft)



to the parking brake handle.

Brake

Brian

-I will make sure the next shop walks me through the process and tells me exactly what the cost will be based on experience. If they don't know I want a clear explanation why they don't know.
-When a guy says it can cost between $500 to $1000 having already had my car a week assessed the situation it makes me uncomfortable keeping in mind this not including the parking brake

The mystery at the moment is to the rear wheels. Supposedly parts are missing.

Michael: Like Mike B and Charlie said, when we have no choice but to pay someone to do work on our brakes, and not knowing whether we are getting our money's worth or not isn't a good feeling. Most young mechanics today haven't got a clue as to what's needed on our old cars unless they've had experience, and finding someone with experience is hard.

Believe me, we all feel bad that we can't just hop in our cars and drive a couple hours to help you out.

If your mechanic claims that you are missing parts in the rear brakes, he must have done some research. Honestly, $1K to replace all those parts and get the missing parts back in is a pretty good deal. I had an old S-10 with rusted out lines, and the lowest quote I got was $800 just to replace all the lines.

As for the master cylinder, I'm pretty sure the mechanic intends to replace the internal parts, which will cost him $15 at the most, so a bench job will be required. And, trust me, the master cylinder isn't hard to work on, but the brake & clutch levers are connected to it along with springs, etc, and that's where it is a pain to put back together.

Hope it works out well for you.....

Michael,

If you would post a picture of your brakes we should be able to tell you what is missing.

Good luck, Mike

See if this helps. it's a bit long but it does show all the parts.

Brian

Jim,
I do appreciate the encouragement and I know the mech is a good guy, but lacks experience working on a 38 Chevrolet brake systems.
-The Master Cylinder is new( I installed it from The Filling Station, but the wheel cylinder needed work.
-The $1000 quote did not include repairing the parking brake. If $1000 would have taken care of everything I might have let him finish.
-I asked him to put my car back together and I would pick up at 11am Saturday. I haven't heard from him since. I think he is closed on Sunday. Keep you all posted.

Mike
I will take pics as soon as I get her back. I'm still waiting.

Brian,
Awesome video, thank you so much.
-The upside to all of this is I might actually have the missing parts. When I received my 38 from Texas a box of spare parts where with it and some where definitely brake parts. I'm excited to get my 38 back and work on her myself.
-I must admit I do not like making mistakes that cost more money. When I tried to change my front brake lines like I did the back I stripped the nuts on both sides using the wrong wrench. I was so mad at myself for not knowing what to do, but learned that a $7 wrench was all I needed. I will keep you all posted and be asking questions to limit my mistakes.
Michael

Who sells the parking brake cables for a 38 sedan? chev of the 40s does not seem to sell them.
I would like to completely refresh my parking brake system along with finishing up the brakes.

No one that I am aware of sells reproduction rear brake cables for 1938 and 1939's.
If your old cables are still working, you may be able to have a brake shop replace just the inner cable. That will give you peace of mind when parking your car.

Jack
A friend has just had a handbrake cable made for a F100 but I am not sure where (Sydney or Melbourne) but that wont be much help to Micheal though.
Tony

I was able to but a pair of rear brake cables for my 39 this year from Chevparts in Sydney , they were $125 each , old stock , not a new reproduction, and not a matched pair. Not sure how many he has in stock.

The hardest thing about having a new cable made for 1938 and 1939 rears is the front of the cable with the clevis eye, and front sleeve , which needs to turned in a lathe, and then attached to the inner cable, and the sleeve to the outer cable.

Hi Guys,

Ebay has a set for sale for $200. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1936-37-38-39-NOS-Chevy-Brake-Cables-/141981462069?hash=item210ec12e35:g:~QAAAOSw~OVWzKNt&vxp=mtr

Good luck, MIke

Mike , the pair listed on ebay , has the GM part number 594308 , which my 29-1950 parts manual says fits 1936 to 1937 EX FC .
Their length is 31 1/2 " , and the 1938 to 1939 cables are 32 1/8" long, so not sure if they will fit.

this ebay seller claims to have many more brake cables
maybe he has the correct ones he can sell?

Thank you gents for the tips. The seller assures me the set will work on my 38. Keep you all posted.
Mike

The thing to check after the fit with the length difference is the location of the front groove in the front outer sleeve, which locates the cable in the chassis bracket.
The rear end of the cable should not be a problem.

Mike , there is also a steel pressed bracket needed for the cables to attach to the brake drums, It acts as a cable entry support at the brake backing plate , and is bolted though the other pressed plates which are part of the cable itself.

Stay away from the mechanics who mainly work on latemodels since that 38 will confuse them,I think there is tools needed to adjust the lower shoe pivot that would really have a modern mechanic scratching their heads.

Good advice all around. I believe the mech was capable, however I would have been paying him $98 an hour to familiarize himself with my system. I noticed many of the cars he had were modified classics. Most of them probably had modern drivetrains and brake systems. In regard to the parking brake cable, the fellow selling them said he has been selling for 25 years and will provide the correct cable assembly. Keep you posted.
Michael

Hey Michael... Are you a VCCA member? Your profile doesn't show a membership #...

I just want to take a second and point out that often people talk about the membership fees to our club being too expensive at $40 US a year. Here's one of those examples where work and lessons on a simple (for a licensed mechanic) repair are often shared at VCCA meetings. I've had plenty of parking lot lessons and shop time with members that are certified mechanics for free, just because as club members that's what we do for each other. The local regions often plan "shop nights" where guys get together and work on the cars. This isn't meant to sound like a lecture just for you, but just some advice for many of the others reading this thread as well, as it's evident you're already receiving a lot of help from these guys.