VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Can 10w-30 destroy your engine?

I was watching the news and there was an item about someone suing General Dollar because he had bought a quart of 10w-30 and now claims that it destroyed his engine. Apparantly there is a warning in fine print on the back that the use of the oil contained in the can is not for cars later than 1988 or so.

Doesn't seem to me that 10w-30, without more, would destroy an engine. Maybe not recommended but ...

Are there any clearances in a modern engine that are so close that 10w-30 couldn't get to and sufficiently lubricate. Seems to me that the person suing would have been using this oil on a regular basis and at short change intervals. Not because he was down a quart and merely topped off.

What do you think?

Charlie

The 10W-30 has nothing to do with it. If t is a modern car it requires certain amounts of certain additives that "cheap" oils lack.
If you read the information in the Americam Petrolium Institute has on their site you can get the full story. They test no-name oils sold at various locations and warn that if the oil is used in modern cars it can cause engine damage. They also list the oils that are OK to use as they contain the necessary additives for todays engines. Just about all major brands are OK as are oil with parts house names and Walmart as an example.

It's the owners responsibility to use an oil that meets the specifications listed by the vehicle manufacturer.

But some people are cheap....lucky if they ever change the oil.

And....people don't read labels on containers either.

There's probably more to the story than what's being said...Joe

The most important label to read is the classification. SL, SM are shown in a circle that should be easily recognized by any knowledgeable buyer. Failure to adhere to the manufacturers recommendations is not the duty of oil sellers.

Even if they read the label on the container unless they checked their owners manual they will have little idea of what is needed. While the automobile industry is constantly improving it also requires the owner to keep up with those changes and the required maintenance and operating practices.

When you go for an oil change at the regular specialized places, don't they just dump in whatever is on the hose? What guarantee do you have that they looked in the owners manual or some other referenced and dumped in the right oil?

Gene, the weight of the oil does matter.

What exactly dictates that a certain oil must dumped into a car after 1988 or so. Is it to assure that new chemicals are there to protect the cam or some other less than stout part.

I think for the engine to fail owing soley to the pre 1988 oil would be a long to be realized. Maybe shorten the life of the engine by a day or two. Not much more.

Oil is going to lubricate and carry off heat no matter the slight make-up it has undergone for the last several years.

The later stuff is better but not by much.

Jai, I, too, think there is much more to this story.

Charlie

10w-30 oil rated for todays (SN)(GF5) use could be used in any engine today, modern or 70 years old, and would not harm the engine.
So engine use 0W-20 and 5W-20 today but the lighter oils are mainly for advertised fuel economy to keep the government happy.

I have seen nothing on why the subject oil is harmful to an engine. Seems to me that the engines made since 1988 must have something in them that the oils were supplied with (or without) that would prevent metal scoring, deformity or some other reaction. Does the molecules in the pre-1988 oils simply lie down and say "You done dumped us into this here 1989 engine and we ani't gonna work no more."

Also, seems to me that "not recommended or unsuitable" are mainly used by oil companies in concert with manufactures to promote the latest and more expensive oil. Should we "follow the dollar" here to see who really benefits?

I wonder what would happen to my 216 if I dumped in recycled oil?

Where is Chipper when we need him?

Its like the gas octane issue. Unless the engine will not advance enough owing to the load, to sufficiently accommodate the lower octane rating in the tank, you are wasting your none by buying the most expensive hi-test. The recommendation is for people who are hard of hearing and, thus, can't hear the pinging owing to explosions instead of the quiet burning process in the cylinders.

I think the guy bringing the law suit is merely one who has destroyed his engine and is looking for a way to get someone else to blame.

Charlie

Charlie, You asked for this.

There two major factors in formulating mineral based engine oil: base stock and additives. The base stock is the mixture of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons. The composition depending on the crude oil and refining process used. There is an array of molecular weights, saturation and branching. Since I probably have lost most of you already I will not continue to explain and risk loosing the rest.

Additives are formulated to be soluble in the base stock. They include viscosity index improvers, anti oxidants, anti-wear compounds, stabilizers, surfactants and other proprietary molecules. Still following?

Okay, now blend in synthetic oils and other engineered molecules and you have a modern engine oil.

Nuf already?

Hee Hee Charlie, I guess you got your answer. Clear as mud to me, I just hope the new stuff is still slippery! Seriously, I don't think the older oil will immediately blow a new engine but I think most of the new oil is good for our old engines in the correct viscosity.

UE,

Ever asked a question and then wish you hadn't"

What I'd like to know is simple:

What was the additive lacking in the subject oil that caused the engine to fail?

Thanks Chipper. I didn't know my question would prompt an answer that would feel at home with a symposium of chemical engineers. That last part about synthetic oil additive doesn't fly. Most of the oil used on post 1988 oils don't have any. Anyway, thanks for your knowledge ands willingness to share. Some of us will say we understand what you were saying. Well, not many but some will claim they do.

I expect that this case will be settled out of court. The cost of replacing an engine is but a few hours cost of litigation to DG. After all, so far as I know, it is not a "class action" suit.

Best,
Charlie

Horsepower has dramatically increased compared to engine size so the amount of heat to be removed has increased. The SM and SN oils are formulated for higher crankcase temperatures. Internal engine cooling using oil as well as water/glycol based coolants helps to extend the life of the engine. If oils intended for lower operating temperatures are used then the they will breakdown faster causing lubrication and even corrosion problems. They can destroy an engine rapidly.

Adding a quart of bad oil will not ruin an engine. Running 1 or 2000 miles on a fill will not hurt.(I wouldn't do it).....but is the engine all ready has a problem and then you dump in some bad oil, unknowingly,, you can always blame it on the oil.

My son works at a Lexus dealership. They have had owners that didn't change oil (maybe not even added any) for less than 20k miles. The engines were junk and not economical to rebuild so were replaced. The engine internal heat due to small size and high horsepower can turn the engine oil to an passage blocking and unlubricating sludge if the additives are depleted. Does not take much additional time before the engine tries to self-destruct.

I see this at the dealerships I call on. This includes cars that had a factory fill of full synthetic as well as owners that use a synthetic.
Modern engines actually need more frequent oil changes.

Gene and Chipper,

Which of the following is/are false:

a. Oil doesn't wear out, it just gets dirty.
b. Oil filters filter out anything passing into them that is harder than the smallest clearance in the engine.
d. Full synthetic is supposed to last for 10K miles without change.
e. Oil filter change change will extend the life of the oil because it filters out dirt and grime.
f. The only thing different about full synthetic and blend and straight oil is the amount and average size of the oils molecules.
g. Frequent changing the oil filter is more important changing the oil.
h. Many oil additives, chemicals, etc. have a relative short life. ( Maybe zinc last longer. )
i. All other things being in good shape, the coolant thermostat causes the engine to operate at about 190-210 degrees.

I'm always happy to learn more.

Thanks,

Charlie

Oil does not wearout. It can change in viscosity due to heat and get very thick. Less of a problem with synthetic. It can become deluted with water, causing sludge, gas causing it to thin out, the water canpick-up acids, destroying bearings, etc.
An oil filter olys removes larger particles, which in a moder engine are few and far between.
With used the additives in oil are slowly depleted. This includes detergents and additive shuch as ZINK.
Full synthetic or conventional oil can not be described at lasting any certain time or mileage. It depends on engine temperature (too hot - too cold), aamount of water, gas, acids, etc. in the oil.
Hest will cause oil to leave a varnish like coating on parts, which in a modern engine can cause the tensioners for the cam chins to stick.

Back in the early 1950's we had tons of problems with hydraulic lifters and yes there was detergent in oils back then. With todays additive packages liftter stickks and cleaning is unheard of.
The Hyd. lifters in my 1950, which are original, are as quiet as a mouse. It has always had frequent oil changes, etc. Back when those engines were new I never expected they would still be running well 65 years later.

And changing oil is more important than changing the filter as just changing the filter does not replentish the oil additive package.

"Modern engines actually need more frequent oil changes"

There lies the problem for the general public. Failure to accept responsibility.

I own a Chevy Traverse, V6 is the only engine available.

OLM (oil life monitor) was set to activate "time to change oil" at 10,000 miles. The three timing chains were self destructing, due to oil sludge buildup and undersized oil passage to the chains.

Chevy reset the oil life monitors, through the ECM, then opened up the diameter of the oil passage to the chains.

Some folks are still having timing chain problems, on Traverses, due to long time and mileage intervals between oil changes.

Frequent Oil and filter changes = cheap life insurance for the engine.

Hi Gentlemen; I feel rather ignorant to a lot of this topic, but what happened to oil vis. and dilution testing. doesn't anyone do that process anymore. If a person wanted to,there are companies that will do this. But I really would like to know about what to use on reassy. of engine know days. Is there some new product for that purpose? Thanks Jay

Go to the "bob is the oil guy" site and you will find the info.

Hi Gene; Thanks for the info on the oil guy.