VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc 1935 Std brakes not up to scratch..

Hi there,
I have now fitted the new relined brake shoes, adjusted the brakes and tested in the paddock.
The result is that they are still the same. but may get better when full bedded in? I have my hopes. So that is where I have to leave it for now, time will tell, but I am still nervous about going out into every day traffic...

Now a new problem has shown its self,the tick-over is too fast, and will not adjust to a slower setting. It makes it almost impossible to change gears once the engine is hot and warmed up!
I think that it is turning a shaft in the gearbox to fast and making it crunch every time.
Its OK when it is cold.
The carbie is a NOS carter, is there anything inside that I can alter to make the tick-over slower so the facilitate gear-changing without a terrible crunch and force? The slow running adjustment is fully wound out , even has a gap so nothing is touching the body...

Peter

What type of brake linings did you use when you had the brake shoes relined?

Note That the transmission in the Standard model has no syncromesh and double clutching is required - or a very slow shift.

I used the recommended lining material from the brake lining place, called type 3195, very suitable for pressed steel drums.


Peter

yes I know that, but the idle is so fast that I cant engage
gear,

need to put on a modern carbie so I can drive the car.....last resort for an old car....get modern and enjoy..

Peter

Describe the Type 3195 brake linings....are they hard linings or are they soft woven linings?

Regarding your carburetor, check the posts in the 1933-36 forum.

soft woven linings are not available in Australia because they were made of asbestos and that has been band for many years.
The type 3195 lining material feels hard to the fingers but I was assured by the specialist brake place that it was very suitable for pressed steel brakes.

Peter

thank you for the reply, I have read the other post and will give feed back when I have a look at the carbie.

Peter

The soft woven linings that are sold in the USA do not contain asbestos because asbestos was banned here decades ago as well.

Obviously, you found out that the Type 3195 lining material is not suitable for mechanical brakes. As we have mentioned before, if you want to solve your braking problem you need to install the soft woven linings. If you can't get the soft woven linings in Australia, you can order the material from the USA. Brakes are something that you should not mess around with. If your car has a hard time stopping, you need to fix the problem before you drive the vehicle.

High friction brake lining strips are available from McMaster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/#friction-material/=rmj4h1 We have used the high strength woven material on '28 and '31 Chevys with good results.

Don't know if a similar material is available in OZ but just might be. If not you can order from McMaster-Carr.

Hi there Chipper,
Here I am again at the not stopping brake problem on my 35 mechanical braked Chevrolet 4 door sedan.

I previously have the shoes relined with a material that I was assured was compatible with pressed steel drums.
Well the proof is in the pudding....

after using them for 12 months, every journey is an adventure and full of drama, they do not stop the car and that is very dangerous in modern day traffic.
What a waste of money that exercise was....

I looked at the link that you posted but I am not sure what is suitable for my car? can you assist me in choosing a suitable soft lining material that can be bonded to my shoes?

Peter

The lining we use is a woven material with brass ribbon interspersed. It is available from McMaster-Carr in the USA. With the following description from MMC you might be able to find an equivalent in OZ.

High-Strength Brake and Clutch Lining
3/16" Thickness, 1-1/2" Width
part number 6224K343
Maximum Rubbing Speed 5,000 ft./min. @ 200 psi
Maximum Operating Temperature 500° F
Maximum Operating Pressure 200 psi
Maximum Coefficient of Friction 0.51
Additional Specifications Strips
High Strength
High-Strength Strips

Also known as friction materials, these sheets and strips can be riveted or bonded. They do not contain asbestos.

High-strength strips, also known as semimetallic woven strips, have a brass wire woven into the material to increase strength and improve heat dissipation.

To Order: Please specify length: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, or 15 ft. High-strength strips are also available in 20 and 25-ft. lengths.

Hi there Chipper,
Thank your for your help in choosing the correct brake material. Is this the same that your use on your cars?
The thickness is only 3/16 inch, this seems very thin? is this really thick enough and how long would it last, my car is use once a month on club runs....if it dry.

Peter

For the amount that you drive 3/16" will last you as long as you own the car.

Yes,
I use 3/16" thick on my '28 and '31 Chevys. Width may be different.

I used 3/16" on my 1930 as well.

I think 3/16" is very nearly standard thickness for brake lining for all passenger cars and LIGHT trucks. We used to be able to get 7/32 thick lining down here but that ceased some 20 years ago (when they dropped asbestos).
Tony

I have had the modern non-asbestos lining (3/16) on my 32 for 15 years and 12000 miles and it stops excellent and there is hardly any wear on the lining.

Hi there Chipper,
I contacted the company in Victoria that relined my brakes last year in their recommended 3195 material, regarding my problem with the linings perhaps not performing as expected.
This is the latest reply from the General manager Paul Woods.

QUOTE:-
Hi Peter,We have been using woven material (MZ gold and D9010) the same as this for years and in our opinion and (most of our customers) the woven material is inferior to the 3915.We no longer stock woven material but can always order it in if that is what you want.I would be surprised if it was any better.It costs roughly the same as 3915 lining.We bond all our exterior bands and shoes that run on steel drums in 3915 and have had great results compared to the same vehicles bonded in woven.One customer actually said it is the first time in 60 years that he could lock up the drums on his 1929 Dodge!Anyway we are happy to to go which ever way you want.
Kind Regards
Paul Woods

now I dont know which way to go, do I go for woven and hope it works from the USA, or go with the MZ gold and D9010 Australian sourced material, assuming that they are the same type?

Peter

My suggestion is to take the gentleman for a ride. If it does not perform as he expects then it is either the lining material or possibly improper adjustment. The maximum brake application effort is achieved when the adjuster is at a 90 degree angle to the brake rod. If he has other customers with the same lining and it is working OK then I would suspect other mechanical problems. I would check that first as it would be a waste of $$$ to change the lining only to have the same problem.

Hi there Steve D,
Thank you all for your helpful comments and suggestions.

This week we put it up on the hoist and gave the entire braking system the once over, checking measurements first , then the rod lengths and finally the adjustment on the drums.

There was a major discrepancy between the front and rear adjustments.
The rear drums were engaging before the front drums and possibly the fronts never had a chance to engage, How this came about when the system was working perfectly before, I dont know?

Before this happened we had a long down hill run on a Sunday outing with the club. I had to virtually brake all the way down and at the bottom pulled over because I had no brakes left, there was smoke coming from the wheels

WE adjusted the brakes, the fronts coming on before the rears and took it for a run, and hey-presto its back to reasonable braking and derivable again in traffic, with utmost caution.

I am going to leave the present lining on the car and see how they go.

Peter

If you weere to remove the drums and inspect the lining surface I would bet only about 60% of the lining surface is contacting the drum As the material slowly wears in the brakes will be even better.
It dosen't take much to overheat those thin steel drums.

I am Glad you got it figured out-and without having to change the lining. Not being able to stop can cause some anxious moments.

Hi there,
In talking to a friend with a Model A 1928 Ford, He too has mechanical brakes and said that he had modified the brakes by converting the pressed steel drums to cast iron, and he can now lock the brakes up if needed without severe fade.

Question:
Is there a later model of 30's Chevrolet that has cast iron drums that would fit my 35 chev, bearing in mind that the stud pattern would have to be the same , so as to use the existing wire wheels?

Peter