VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 36 running rough 2nd act

Each time the valve seats are reground they get deeper into the head. This decreases the spring tension due to the space from the head to the spring cap increases. The only way to eleminate this problem is to use valve spring shims under the springs. Also necessary to check the length of the spring as well as the prescribed tension.

"I was reluctant to run the engine with the valve cover off at high rpm's because of the mess I assumed would occur. Maybe these engines don't have that much oil supply up top, I guess I,ll find out."

Jersey36,

There is no mess to deal with when adjusting the valves with the engine idling. If you find an old valve cover gasket it will be shrunken and way too small. That's easily fixed by "cooking" it for a few minutes in hot water in a cookie sheet on the stove top.

Those same cookie sheets make great fan shrouds.

Ray W

If it turns out to be a valve spring problem and you have
difficulty finding exact replacements,I learned from Gene Schneider that the supplementary springs at the lower end of the push rods were used up to 1837. When replacing the springs
on your '36, you can eliminate the push rod springs buy using
valve springs for 1938 and later 216 engine! They will fit, and are a little stiffer so the other springs are no longer
needed! An added bonus is, removing the cylinder head is now
much easier because the push rods can just be plucked out
without having to fool w/the springs and retainers!

We have the calm before the blow here in NJ and expect to be able to eliminate the valve and tappet springs, or realize that they are the root cause of my problems. I got ahead of myself as usual and tried to find some parts online. The FS catalog for me is not user friendly, I should have ordered the paper version. I tried ebay, as it seems that more than a few members have had some good results in locating parts. If any one could pass along the exact way to word a search for say 34 t0 39 chev engine parts let me know. Each time I try I get speed equip, mopar, ford stuff mixed in and it seems a waste of time. Found some valve springs @ FS but haven't seen any tappet springs. I think I read somewhere that you can remove the tappet springs if not available and replace the valve springs with new 39 springs if necessary. It would seem that if Chevrolet eliminated them (tappet springs) in 39 and never reinstalled them in later years that it would be acceptable. As usual, I'm getting way ahead of tomorrow. Hope everyone had a great weekend. Many thanks, Bob

Sorry to Ray and Flip, so computer illiterate I didn't realize that there was a second page to 36 running rough 2nd act. After my last post I saw yours above my latest. Could have saved myself some time and I didn't want you to think I ignored your help Thanks so much, Bob

Jersey 36

when searching ebay and your looking for specific year parts. lets say ::: 1936 Chevrolet cylinder head gasket

type those exact words into the search ,then the section EBAY MOTORS you think they should be in, then go to "advanced " on the very end of that search line. In there it will ask you 4 choices of exact words to search.

now your search will only come up with exactly what your looking for.

try it.......for each item and year your looking for

mike lynch

Look in 46-48 technical section. subject gremlin in my 47 stylemaster.

I'm back, to mario1234 I wish I was that lucky. I'm sporting a DR condenser now and can't take a spin around the block, but happy to hear you were successful. Now for the latest. Couldn't wait to dig in Monday. Pushed her outside (the 36, not my wife), started her up, let run a bit, pulled out the hand throttle, got her popping and started shorting each cylinder out hoping to find the suspect cylinder. As I here it said now "no joy". Retarded the timing and again the engine runs better and no popping, but still not perfectly smooth at higher rpms. Back to idle, checked the timing and this time I find that it is off by 4 degrees, no big deal but this is the first time I've seen it change. Reset it again and as I grab the dist. (timing lite is on and wedged in on top of the starter so I can use both hands), I see that the dist. is moving as the engine is idling, never noticed it before as I was always focused on the timing marks. I manually moved the dist. towards the block and realized it advanced the timing by 10 degrees. I now realized the problem with the 38 dist. that although it would drive the oil pump that's in the engine the housing is to long to seat right in the block even though it's the same diameter. Back into the garage as I now realize that I have to address this before moving on. I had visions of 4or 5 hours tops. In my stash of parts I have a 35 945G dist. and a GM gear oil pump that match up so I figure no problem, Just drop the pan, change out the oil pump put the 35 dist. in and if nothing else I'll eliminate this variable timing solution (took Detroit probably 50 years to come up with what I have in a 36). Removing the dist. 123, getting good at that. Then the oil pan looked so easy, not so much. Rear mounts in the way, Jack the engine up and remove, tie rod no problem, but the rear crossmember under the F/W housing won't let the pan come down. With a lot of wrangling I get it out, I realize I don't believe I can reinstall it with out screwing up the gaskets, too much hitting this or that let alone the oil pipes and troughs in the pan going to need some help on this too. I had the pan off my 34 master to tighten up the rods with no issues, hope someone has done this on another 36 low cab or I'll have another post. Next issue I find is that the oil pump I'm installing is a half inch shorter so I didn't see a problem except that I need to use the oil lie off the longer pump and even though I can switch the fittings in the block and the pump, the line is to long to mate up with the pump I need to install. Worse, I can't adapt it because GM for some reason used 7/16" tubing and even McMaster-Carr doesn't carry them and they have almost everything. With 7/16" compression ferules I could get it to work. Ten hours later I quit for the day, and no going to dinner tonite. Going to try tomorrow to work on getting the pump to fit and I don't like going to bed without a plan, even if it's not a great one. Thanks to all for your interest and support, it's what's keeping me from putting an add in the G&D 36 FB for sale, Bob

Do you have the 1936 repair manual? On the 1936 Dist/The Dist. is supose to move. It is hooked to the vaccum advance via the Octain selector slide. This slide is located between the selector and vaccum pot. The one with the knob on it next to the dist. Yes this will advance/retard the spark if you move the dist. It is one of the "test" done to see if your dist. is working properly. It is important to grease/oil the slide so it will not hang up and so that your automatic advance works properly. The Octaine Selector give you an adjustment on timing to match the gasoline octaine that you have. With engine running, reach over to the gas petal rod and give it some gas. You should see the whole dist. shift. That is also why spark plug wires have what appears to be to much slack in them. Inside the dist. below the plate that the points are on is another automatic advance. It is weights and springs that fling out as she (dist. shaft) spins. this is an automatic advance, too. Make sure your springs are good and weights move on pins properly. Some very light oil, not to much, is needed here. The third way and one you sound like you know about is to loosen the dist and move it and clamp it back down. Today's gasoline has good octaine. I have my Octaine Selector set at Advance 5. (Others say you need to have it at advance 10.) What this has done is give me a good start. When I crank. Otherwise may need starting fluid and pour gas in carb. repeteded cranking. Rough running is smoothed out as advance is moved forwards. An improper/sticking slide can cause a lot of trouble. In the old days 1930's you could get gas as low as 20 octaine. The gas station attendant who pumped your gas for you (you never pumped your own gas) would offer to set your Octained Selector for you! He also checked your oil, tire pressure and water,too.
Yes, the oil pan will come out, but you have to jack the frame up and let the axel dangle down. This give you proper room to remove the pan on a straight axel '36 car or truck.
Rember that this is a hobby. Working on these requires a 1930's mentalaty. I hope you get a copy of "Chevrolet Six Car and Truck" by Page. go to AbeBooks.com a new reprint can be had for about $30.00. While this will not reveile all the swift moves of "old duffer" mechanics it will help. Keep on this chat site, too!

Terrill, thanks for your help. Bought a copy of Chevy Six by Page in 85 when I got my 34. I didn't explain properly about the movement in the dist. I didn't mean about it rotating with the vacuum adv., or the octane selector. You could push it back and forth in the block and because this dist. (a 38 #1110008 unit) is so much longer (about 2") the dist. drive gear rides much higher on the camshaft gear that drives the dist. I'm not sure if this is a major problem for my engine, but its become a major problem for me. Work is preventing me from causing myself any new problems for now, while my buddy Mike is trying to modify the 7/16" oil line for the pump that I had mentioned before. As for the oil pan, the pan is 28 1/2"L and there's only 26 1/2" between the crossmembers, the rear xmember sits directly under the rear main brg. this makes it impossible to just put the pan up straight. It would be a snap if the rear xmember was bolted in, alas it's riveted as it should be. I've read about some poor quality gaskets around can anyone suggest a supplier for a quality pan and pushrod cover gasket. I surely do not want to have a do over on this project. Thanks again to all for your help and support, Bob

Just a quick update. Thanks to Mike and his shop he was able to rework the oil pressure line from the pump to the block. I now have the dist. and the pump installed and waiting for an oil pan gasket to finish up. Here's hoping I can reinstall the pan without too much of a problem . I hope it goes up easier than it came down and that we will be on the road to the 3rd and final act. thanks to all, Bob

While waiting for our Nor'easter and Joaquin to go by, I've progressed a little. Got my gaskets, and it took 4 hours to reinstall it (the oil pan). Had to remove the toe and floor boards so as to jack up the engine enough to have just barely the room to get the pan up without dislodging the gaskets. I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of materials and the fit of the gaskets (Best Gasket Co.). Also had time to change the pushrod cover gasket and check the tappet springs and pushrods as it was a suggestion as to a possible problem. Now I'm waiting for some NW wind to clear our skies and start the engine and see where we go from here. I believe I've had a chance to try all ideas that were generously put forth, but I will be surprised if any thing has been accomplished except to correct some deficiencies that have existed for some time. As this second act has gone on for way to long already I apologize for taking up so much of your time, but I do appreciate all your ideas and support. Thanks, Bob

This forum is available to allow people to get the correct information to sort their Chev problems out. The information is getting harder to find.
Dont be afraid to ask questions.
Tony

I was about to start a new post when I realized I didn't know how to. I didn't want anyone who has been following to wade thru 2 pages of dialog of my earlier issues. Enough of that. Here's where I'm at as of now. I have a 35 distributer mated to a GM replacement oil pump (gear type) giving me the closest advance curve to a 36 engine ( It's almost identical). I have oil pan and pushrod covers that don't leak. Valve springs, tappet springs, pushrods, rocker arms and a valve adjustment that would satisfy almost anyone(I'll hear about this). I have a newly refurbished 483 W-1 mounted on manifolds attached with new manifold gaskets. I removed the hi-output coil and reinstalled the electrolock coil that has 4760 ohms on the secondary windings, as there was no difference in how the engine ran, and it was a rube Goldberg affair to hook it up. The dist, I installed was completely gone over, taking the shaft out to check for wear, cleaning and lubricating the weights and cam, before assembling with new points, cond., rotor, cap and wires. Of course I have the timing marks up and we're ready to launch. I can't say I was surprised. Engine ran same as before this work was done. The best it will run is with the vacuum adv disconnected and the octane selector on 10 degrees retarded spark. Now keep in mind, this is with the timing right on the marks with the engine idling @ 450. Now I ask my wife if she wants to take a spin and she's been so patient ( me knowing that this might be the last chance for a while and me remembering she is a card carrying AAA member and I am not, and this might come in handy). So we put about 30 miles on between 30 to 50 mph, no better than before I started this, the faster the engine runs the rougher it gets. It seems that if you could manually control the timing from the cab, that you could really see what's going on. I've said this before I finished this work, I've tried all suggestions and all my own ideas and as of now I'm out of anything else to try. Any new ideas I'm ready for them. Thanks to all, Bob

There is the possibility that the points are 'floating'. Check the tension on the point and possibly install another point if you have it.

Moving over to the fuel side, you may be outrunning the fuel pump. Check the pressure at the carburetor and expect to get 2-3 1/2 lbs.

I RUN MINE AT 5 DEGREES ADVANCE.......NOT RETARD......

Having to retard the timing to have it run better suggest to me that the distributor is off a tooth or even perhaps the cam gears are not aligned correctly. It would help if you let us know when it last ran properly.

Have you looked at the timming chain? Are your timming gears lined up before you put the chain on? Did she slip one tooth?

To update further, the points were new again when I installed the 35 dist. on Monday, and I checked the fuel pump pressure after replacing the diaphragm three weeks ago. I do agree that there is something amiss with the timing as it seems to run better as I retard the timing. Help me understand this part though ( I mentioned in my 1st post that my background was in Detroit Diesels) the timing marks are aligned as the points just start to break as the rotor comes up on the #1 cylinder wire terminal (engine stopped). When the engine is idling (@ 450 rpm) the inductive pickup on my timing light(on #1 cylinder) shows the ball perfectly aligned on the pointer. so how could I be a tooth off? Is it possible? Does it matter which way the distributer sits, as long as you have the firing order correct and the points open on the #1 cyl wire as the timing marks line up both static and engine running? I just can't get past the point that I have the timing correct. You can't have the dist. 180 out and have the engine run with the timing marks up on #1 can you? This engine starts right up and idles good, but as soon as you give it throttle it starts to run rough and just gets worse. I can't tell how far the timing advances as I speed up, as the viewing port on the flywheel hsg. doesn't allow you to see that far. Installed is a dist. that has only 16 degrees mechanical advance @ 3000 rpms and 8 degrees vacuum advance, which goes back to 0 deg. at higher rpms. Am I missing something so simple that I can't see the problem? This engine was rebuilt 25 years ago and test run in the shop before it was reinstalled in the pickup. It ran fine and it was a daily driver for a summer before the locals gave me some heat for having antique plates on it. I assembled the engine myself so I know that the crank and cam gears are aligned correctly. We had the engine hooked to a dyno and ran it under a load for an hour to check for leaks and run it in a bit. The truck sat idle for over 12 years just being run just once a year off a gallon can of gas and then put back in storage. Just sold my business late 2013, giving me time to drive the truck again. This is when I discovered this problem. I close this way each time because I mean it. To all who read whether you reply or not, I realize that I'm not alone and I Thank everyone for your help, Bob

Have you ran her at night with the hood open and all lights out to check for a bad wire? You will see a spark jumping. Just reach in there and gun the gas while you and a buddy look on. Even brand new wires can be bad some times. I had that one time when I could not figgure it out.

If it was run off a gallon can OK then my suggestion is to hook it back up and see how it runs. You may have blockage somewhere in the line or tank-especially if it sat for a number of years. A symptom of fuel shortage is that it will idle OK but not accelerate. I have lots of experience with Detroit Diesels having worked in the heavy truck parts business for 46 years. I don't have that much experience with Chevy sixes, but there are plenty of guys on this site that do and they will stay with you until you find a solution to your problem.

I wish I lived close to be able to help you I have read your detailed predicament with interest. As a long shot from far away check your exhaust system, over the years I have seen several vehicles experience lack of power etc from a loose baffle or a internal collapsed muffler. I have witnessed the same with a broken manifold heat flap. a quick way of checking is to get someone to rev the motor and listen to the exhaust gasses at the tail pipe. If it is restricted you will hear a distinctive hissing sound and by placing a hand over the tail pipe end and there will not be a lot of exhaust gas pressure if faulty. Or you could just drop the exhaust at the front pipe and see if that improves it

Could also have a mouse nest built up inside the muffler.

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Have you put oil on the gasket between the carb and manifold when running at high idle to see if it is sucking air? If it is sucking air then it will run normal as long as the oil blocks the air gap. You must use a "S" shape box wrench to tighten the nut next to the engine. Using anything else I have found will seem to be tight when it is not.
The distributor is a semi-automatic type it's weights do not spark advance (move out) until 22 miles per hour. That is when the centrifugal weights start to move. Have you noticed that you can get up to 22 miles per hour without a problem? If so then the weights are not moving and the spark is not advancing like it should.