VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 1936 - Seperating Trans and Engine

I'm going to remove the engine and transmission from the frame soon. Is there any thing I should be aware of before I separate the transmission from the engine? Should I separate the trans from the bell housing/clutch first or does it matter?

My preferred sequence would be to remove the trans from the bell housing then remove the bell housing/clutch from the engine. Next, pull the engine for a going through and new gaskets/rebuild as needed.

I ask because I had a bad experience as a kid pulling the trans on a 56 belair and having a bunch of needle bearings fall out and surprise me. Don't like those kind of surprises.

Any thing else I should be aware of?

Thanks

Ron
I (not necessarily others) would lift both engine and gearbox as a unit then separate them.
Tony

Ron,

The potential for bending the clutch plate exists when removing the trans. It happens when the front of the main drive gear is pulled out ot the pilot bearing and the trans "hangs" on the clutch plate.

The solution is simple. Replace the top bolts with long bolts with their heads cut off and slide the trans back along those long bolts until the main drive gear is clear of the clutch plate.

Viola, mission accomplished!

Those same long bolts make trans installation a snap.

Did you find one of those AC gas filters to fit inside your fuel pump?

Ray W

That's a great tip, thanks.

How long should the bolts be? 6"

Haven't started looking for the gas filter yet.

"How long should the bolts be? 6" "

That would probably be fine.

If you're going to be into the clutch, here's something else to consider. The '36 has a hair trigger clutch. If I ever have my trans off again, I'm going to look into substituting in a different pressure plate that has a more progressive engagement.

It would be a simple matter of finding a pressure plate that fits inside the bell housing and a matching clutch plate with the correct splines and diameter. The flywheel would then be drilled to match the new pressure plate. Obviously perfect concentricity would have to be maintained. This would be a job for a HIGHLY COMPETENT machine shop but is very doable.

Cars that aren't trailer queens can be made much more pleasant to drive with these kind of updates.

Ray W

I should have mentioned that the body is off the frame and the entire engine and drive train are accessible.

I fully agree with Tonyw. Taking out engine and transmission as a unit and then taking them apart is far easier than fighting the frame rails and cross members. Is doubly easier when body is in position. Putting back as a unit is also recommended. Stabbing a transmission in the frame is a PAIN.

"I fully agree with Tonyw. Taking out engine and transmission as a unit and then taking them apart is far easier than fighting the frame rails and cross members."

Chipper,

Have you used a jack to do the heavy lifting in removing a trans? I made an adaptor for my floor jack that cradles manual transmissions and lets the jack do all the work.

My son was an aircraft mechanic in the Marine Corps where he met my daughter in law, also a Marine aircraft mechanic. She is a petite beauty but she changed out jet engines using skill and suitable equipment. It's about not being outsmarted by inanimate objects, brains over brawn. She taught me to install nearly inaccessible fastners by super gluing them to my finger tips and other similar "tricks of the trade".

It seems that if the engine does not need to come out he should be able to remove the trans anyway no sweat.

Ray W

I have used engine hoists, A-frames and chainfalls. Used straps, chains around various parts of the engines. The key is to position the lifting point about 2/3 from the front of the engine so the load is approx. balanced. Adjustments to engine/trans level and rotation can be a one-man operation. I have one of those cranked screw devices but never used it. Probably a lot easier using it but just grabbing what is handy is faster.

I dont have a load leveler but dont have 1 handy when I need it. So the chain at various positions is the most used.
Tony

I have an inexpensive HF lifting leveler and using it makes the lob a lot easier (especially when alone) and helps to prevent damage.

Circling back to this one.

Was trying to remove the trans from the engine today and feel like I've done everything right. All the correct bolts are removed but I can't seem to separate the trans from the engine. Oddly, the trans moves back and forth as I actuate the clutch and I see a bit of rust around the spline shaft and clutch plate making me believe that the spline shaft and the clutch plate are rusted to together, making it impossible to subtract the trans from the engine. Any thing I might have missed here? Any thoughts on a cure? It is possible to separate the the bell housing from the engine with out removing the transmission and allowing me to access both sides of the spline shaft

I don't mean to suggest the trans moves much, maybe 3/16" but it defiantly moves instead of the clutch moving on the spline.

As always
Thanks ahead of time for your help.

I think you may well be right by your description. You may have to get a little rougher with it. Clutch discs are reasonably tough and will take a bit of brute force though not enough to send it accross the shop when it does let go.
Tony

"Clutch discs are reasonably tough and will take a bit of brute force"

Ron,

The above is one approach. The other is to remind yourself that you're dealing with inanimate objects and there is no need to be outsmarted by inanimate objects. Applying brutality can have unintended consequences like bending the clutch plate and/or breaking the transmisiion front bearing retainer.

If you remove the bellhousing with the trans still attached the pressure plate and clutch disc will be exposed and you'll see what you are dealing with. A few applications of penetrating oil to the splines may solve the problem. If you need to apply force you can make a puller to do that in a way that doesn't damage the clutch disc. Some allthread and a piece of thick plywood will make a nice puller to pull evenly on the pressure plate and thus pull on the clutch disc without bending it.

What do you think Tony?

Ray w

How do you remove the bellhousing without first removing the transmission, pressure plate, clutch disc, and flywheel?

I'm hoping I can disconnect the pressure plate from the fly wheel and then disconnect the bell housing and the pressure plate/clutch assembly. Maybe not easy but doable??

"How do you remove the bellhousing without first removing the transmission, pressure plate, clutch disc, and flywheel?"

Leagl,

Here's how I would do it:

First I would remove the sheet metal pan below the bellhousing to access the pressure plate bolts. I would loosen these bolts a little at a time until they are completely loose to avoid warping the pressure plate. At that point the pressure plate is no longer attached to the flywheel.

Then I would remove the bellhousing bolts with the back of the trans supported. When the bellhousing bolts are all removed the trans, bellhousing, clutch fork, throwout bearing, pressure plate and clutch disc should come off together.

If the nose of the main drive gear is seized in the pilot bushing/bearing I would carefully wedge the bellhousing off the block with screw drivers. This risks breaking the transmission front bearing retainer but those are readily available on ebay for $20, and being a patient ebay buyer I have a couple I've bought on ebay for $5 each. If the front bearing retainer does break the bellhousing and trans will come off leaving the main drive gear, pressure plate and clutch disc stuck in the pilot bearing/bushing. Some penetrating oil and wiggling the main drive gear will release the main drive gear from the pilot bearing/bushing.

It doesn't seem necessary to remove the flywheel to do this job. It's been 40+ years since I installed the flywheel and bellhousing on my '36 Chevy pickup engine but I recall putting on the flywheel and then the bellhousing. That means the disassembly order would be the reverse. I'm no "Expert" but that's the assembly/disassembly order on every engine I've ever seen except flathead Fords that have the bellhousing cast integrally with the block.

Does that make sense or am I missing something? Perhaps I've been working on hot rod V-8 engines for too long and have totally forgotten what the back of my '36 Chevy pickup engine looks like. I admit I last looked at the bellhousing area of my pickup engine in 1976.

Ray W

That's my plan, I'll let you all know how many fingers I have left after tearing them up inside the bellhousing. Just hoping there's not that one bolt that's jusssst out of reach or frozen!

Wish me luck!!

I think the problem is going to be accessing and removing the 2 bottom bolts that hold on the bellhousing. It's going to difficult to clear the flywheel. Not saying it's right, but I've always put the bellhousing on first, then the flywheel. Let us know if your plan works.

If I have to maybe I'll need to partially remove those bolts and cut them off ?????

Always somethin'!

You should be able to remove the gearbox by using a slotted head screwdriver bit in a 1/4 inch drive ratchet and undoing the 4 bearing retainer screws which can be got to inside the clutch housing. Probably best to remove the clutch fork first.This will leave the main drive gear still in the clutch but you will probably be able to lever it out with a pinch bar or similar.

Ron,

Were you able to successfully complete this job?

Ray W

Unfortunately work and kids have keep me from working on it. Still applying penetrating oil to it every so often hoping I might be able to free it up. Maybe have time tomorrow though to piddle with it some. Stand by!

Ron,

I was asking because yesterday I took a close look at the engine in my '36 PU and there do appear top be some bellhouising bolts that are accessed from inside the bellhouising. I installed my bellhousing about 40 years ago and that detial was long forgotten.

You'll definitely be able to solve that problem without resorting to the big hammer approach.

Ray W