VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 water pump lubrication, 1937 Chevy, 216 engine

Hi,
summer season starts and i am supposed to do the lubrication of the water pump. My 1937 shop manual is not very helpful in that circumstance. It just says that there is a oil resorvior but no pictures or closer description. I found a cross-sectional view oft he pump in a 1938 manual. There is a oil cup which sits on top of the water pump housing and between the pulley of the fan and the crankcase. Unfortunately i can not find a oil cup in the pump area of my engine. There is just a hole which is drilled on top of the pump housing. It gets also kind of covered from the fan bully. There is no filler cap or oil cup which seals this hole.

I spent some time for research on the internet but could not find to much helpful information. Therefore I would like to ask you to answer my following questions:

1. Where is the oil cup of the water pump oil resorvior located on a Chevrolet Master Business Coupe 1937, 216 engine?
2. If the mentioned drilled hole is the mainfold to resorvior what sealing cover do i need?
3. What is the function of the hole if it”˜s not the mainfold for the resorvior?

I look forward and appreciate the slightest answer!

Thanks a lot
Best Regards
Robert

It is possible that you have a newer water pump that does not require oil.

Can you take a side view pic of your current pump? It might help answer your questions.

The 1937 original design water pump was a disaster and very few survived.he original 1938 was a little better but not much. Late in 1938 the new seals bear non-lubrication pump was used. At that time the new replacement Genuine Chevrolet water pumps were changed to that type.
After market pumps followed shortly.
If the casting number on your pump is 598309 you have the sealed bearing pump. If it has some other number or no number it is an aftermarket pump.

Robert, there is a discussion started on 10/7/13, I would attach a link but I don't know how. I bought and installed an oil cup and have been lubricating it religiously.

Would the new style pump have a hole on top? I would have thought there would be a weep hole on the bottom.

Hi Eli,
thanks a lot for your reply. You have to use the second button of the Button bar which has a earth sign on it. Just open a new posting and you will find the bar in the post paragraph. It's over the text control widget.

For example: chevy forum

I am looking forward hearing from you.
Best Regards!
Robert

While most water pumps have a weep hole not all are on the underneath, I have seen some later types with the weep hole on the top, not necessarily Chev though.
Tony

Well, if I have it right, try this:

37 Water Pump Oiler

Hi Eli,
thanks a lot for your efforts. Despite the excellent information of your link i am still a little bit confused about the design of my pump. Your picture shows the same type of pump like the one which is assembled in my car. Is this the first generation of pumps they engineered in 1937? >>Rusty 37 Master<< descripted that the first pump had a bushing type design with a oil cup for lubrication. Maybe it’s not a oil cup at all because >>Chevy Nut<< mentioned a short necked filler with a spring loaded cap for the first generation. My one has just a hole on top of the pump body. Is this original or got the oil cup/spring loaded cap lost over the years and never be replaced?
You mentioned that you bought and installed an oil cup. Where did you buy it? Does the picture from your link shows the oil cup? For me it looks rather like a filler with a spring loaded cap.

I am looking forward hearing from you.
Best Regards!
Robert

My picture does not show it, the picture is pre-installation. When Gene (Chev Nut) gives advice, I take it to the bank, but I still did some further research before concluding that over time, the hinged oil cap had simply been knocked off. The on-line Old Car Manual did not have any detail and I no longer remember what confirmed it for me, but I installed one of these quite easily. Oil Cover

Robert, please understand, I am not saying that this is the exact size oil cap that I bought and installed; at the time I was restoring 2 generators and one starter and I ordered a variety of oil caps for general usage, one of which was the right size. I never even bought them from Cot40s, I attach the link as a sample of the type of cover I concluded was right for the pump. Do some research and if memory serves me, there are inexpensive sources for these and you can do what I did, buy a handful of them to have on hand for when you need them; the oil pump is a standard size and one of them will fit.

I am unfortunately having some body work done or I would step out and take a picture for you, but it was a simple fit and I figured that having the lid hinge on the passenger side was most conducive to the oiling process.

If it is an original 1937 genuine Chevrolet pmp 838466 will be stamped on the pulley.
If it is an original genuine Chevrolet 1938 pump 838764 will be stamped on the pulley.
If it is a genuine Chevrolet (new and improved)838905 will be stamped on the pulley.
If it is an after market replacement pump it could be different from anything Chevrolet made.
For 1937 and 1938 with an orginal pump the pulley will slip off when the fan is removed.
If a new and iproved (sealed bearing) replacement pump the pulley will be pressed onto the water pump shaft.

Another Greese Suggestion is Alemite Water Pump Lubricant 135-E. I have used it for years in our 31.

Yep, the Alemite 135-E is some really good stuff also.

I found a great cut-away picture of a 1937 original water pump and a 1939 sealed ball bearing pump which Chevrolet sold as a replacement for the 1937 pump.
The oiler tube was on the pump casting at about the same level as the out side diameter of the pulley was at about the same level as the outside diameter of the pulley, well in plain sight.

The 1939 pump has a open hole on the lower level of the housing inline with the back of the pulley. NOt in plain sight but can be seen. It is inline with the weep hole on the bottom of the pulley and not to be oiled.

Gene, was that a recollection, or do you have the cutaways that you could share? I would love to see it. If you can see this picture, does the hole I identify match your description:

[img]http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/1...c8da58d1_zps67e57525.jpg.html?state=copy[/img]

Will send pictures later this evening.

sorry, that i didn’t come back early but renovateing my house keeps me a way to busy.
Last sunday i checked the pulley for stamps but unfortunately i could not find any stamps at all. As i mentioned there is just a hole on top of the water pump casting. I took a thin wire to figure out how deep the hole is drilled into the housing. The wire disappeared approximately 0.5 inches into the hole. I am still confused about the pump type. I learned from >>Rusty 37 Master<< that the the Chevy engineers design two different fans. The fan which has two simple stamped long blades only fits to the pump which was the '37 first introduction (it had a bushing type design with the oil cup for lubrication, see post: link). Is that statement true? If so, than my Chevy has still a water pump of the first generation assembled.

I guess all i can do is just take the assumption that the hole is the filler neck for the oil resorvior.

For sure that brings me to the next question. What kind of oil do I have to use? >>Back Roads<< and >>Junkyard Dog<< recommended Alemite Water Pump Lubricant 135-E but that’s not available in Germany. My 1937 shop manual says that I could take motor oil to lubricate the pump. But what kind of motor oil is the right one?

I will open a new post because it’s a kind of new topic maybe already discussed at the VCCA forum, but i’m to dump to find a search function in the forum (Is there one available at all?).

Gene, i would really appreciate if you would share the cut-away picture of a 1937 original water pump and a 1939 sealed ball bearing pump. And Gene, do you know where the ID number should be located on the bulley? I’am a little bit afraid that I am just blind and ignore the number.

Thanks a lot for your help.
Look forward hearing from you!
Robert

I will need your email address and will be glad to send a picture.
I would not recommend putting oil in the hole because if you have a sealed bearing replacement pump the oil will damage the seal.

Hi Gene,
many thanks for your effort!
My email address: erb_robert@yahoo.de
Best Regards
Robert

I sent you some pictures. Let me know if you get them

I got my copy, thanks for sending them, they are extremely helpful.

Hi Gene,
many, many thanks for the pictures and your extraordinary help. My pump is the same as shown in the second picture (late 1938 and 1939).

Are the two drilled holes from the pump casting vent ports?
And the most import question! Is the late 1938 style a self-lubricating pump?

Best Regards
Robert

Yes, there are two drilled holes. One on the top and a matching one on the bottom. If coolant leaks from the bottom hole it indicates the seal is leaking.
I doubt if there are any of the late style 1938 pumps in existance as there were few made, had a short lifen and were replaced with the better 1939 style ball bearing pump.
The 1939 ball bearing pump requires no lubrication. A water pump lubricant can be added to the radiator liquid to lube the seal but is not necessary if anti-freeze is used all year around.

Note that there were many other companies making replacement water pumps for Chevrolets. Some versions even had a grease fitting for lubrication.