VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 31 Roadster Curtains

Okay I have curtains from LeBaron Bonney for my 31. I have curtain rods but there appears to be a problem. The curtain rod doesn't appear to fit. Look at the picture below and you will see the problem. The rod gets caught up behind the knob where the top irons connect to the body. Currently the door would not be able to open if I used them. Does anyone have a 31 roadster with side curtains on it? If so, what are the dimensions of the curtain rods being used? The side curtain installation comes to a halt until I can correct the curtain rod situation.

My first question would be are the knobs correct??

If you look closely you will see that it is caught behind the hardware and not the knob. The question becomes is it supposed to clear the top iron at the point it where it connects to the body. The knob is an easy fix if that is the problem. The question is how is it supposed to fit? I've also included a the measurement from the edge of the door to the socket.

The rod is bent in the wrong direction and length. Fix the rod will fix the problem.

Ok, that's a start. Now which direction and how long?

The steel curtain rod should only be past the back of the door edge by the thickness of the rod. A straight edge from the back of the door , lining up with the forward side of the rod.
Looking at pictures of the top iron pivots on an unrestored 1931 roadster, there should be about a 5/8" gap from the turned up lip on the top of the rear quarter panel to the front edge of the top iron pivot bracket. This gap has a piece of filler timber between the turned up lip and the bracket. There is also a stud to clip onto in front of the pivot.

Here is a picture with some lines which will help me understand the correct position.

The door side curtain sits to the outside of the door, so the yellow line would be the correct position.
I believe that your pivot is too far forward, and the diameter of the big chrome nut is too large, Can you post a picture of the side on view of the nut in relation to the body mould and door opening.

Ok, I think that this is the view that you want to see. Not quite sure what you mean by pivot.

Hello 1931Roadster,
In reference to the chrome knob, do the 'top irons' rotate during opening and closing of the top at the chrome knob location? I would call that the pivot point for the top irons. Is there only one location for this pivot point, or are there numerous mounting locations for the pivot point and chrome knob? If your door curtain rod is correct, then positioning it outboard of the chrome knob may be the fix. The size of the door curtains should dictate the shape and length of the rod. If needed, pad the rod if contact is made against the chrome knob with the door closed.

Yes , that is close to the view I was asking for, maybe with the centre of the chrome nut central would be better.
Any way, looking at the original unrestored car pictures, if you dropped a string line down through the centre of the chrome nut, it would be about 3/4 of the distance back on the cream moulding line before it dips away on the rear quarter. There should be a press stud in front of the nut , and a press stud behind the chrome nut. in through the tan trim panel. These are to attach the rear curtain to, either side of the chrome pivot nut.

I also note that the bend in your top irons is the opposite direction to the US roadsters, even the Australian 1931 roadsters have the iron going straight up, and then bending back. But your roadster is a Canadian one so could be different. I will have to check my other pictures of a Canadian roadster when I get home.

By the hood iron going straight up, and then bending back, it will keep the top iron well clear of the body paint.

The pictures I looked at shows the internal pivot bracket as being vertical with no tilt. Is your bracket tilted forward?
I am wondering if someone has re bent your top irons to lower the top line.

Yes the top irons rotate at the chrome knob location and now I understand what is meant by pivot point. There is only one location for this pivot point. The pivot point appears to be dictated by hardware aligning along the wood post on the rear door jam. It appeared that it has always been at that location. I think the wood is original (not 100% sure) at that point and there is no indication that it was mounted in any other location. The door curtains were made by LeBaron Bonney and should be the same pattern as the original curtains would have been. I am beginning to have a better insight as to how these curtains work. It would be helpful to see a picture of a setup that is working properly.

This is a US roadster, not Canadian. I understand what you are saying about the top irons and it makes sense. Where they changed? I don't know. The pivot bracket is vertical with no tilt to it. Goes straight up. Now that I know what you are looking for I will take another picture and post it. I will also have a good look at the top irons. As I have never seen another roadster of close up pictures of the top, I am working blind.

One of the interesting facts that was discovered during out private message exchange is that the location of the side curtain rod socket is not the same on all '29-'31 Roadster doors (also front door on Phaeton). I have several that have the socket center from ~ 3" from rear center of door metal to a ~ 3 1/2" from rear center. It appears from Paul's measurements his socket is ~ 2 3/4" from the rear center.

My conclusion is that there need to be several slightly differently bent rods to compensate for the difference in the socket location and still have the overlap for the door curtain and quarter curtain.

I have posted some pictures, hope they help.
https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/galleries/333404
https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/galleries/333405/1931_roadster_side_curtain_and#comments

If I could find it I think Ralph sent me a drawing of the rods. Then I ended up ordering a pair from Kent.

Thanks for the posting of the pictures. Do you have other pictures of this unmolested roadster? I have taken another picture from as close to 90 degree angle to the car. I looked at my irons and I have to agree there is something amiss as my irons bend exactly the opposite to other roadsters. At first I thought that maybe they had been reverse (left and right) but that is not possible. It doesn't look like they have been altered but that appears to be the only explanation. As for the rods there are 6 different listing for rods from 1929 - 1935.

I thought the installation of the side curtains would be a bit tricky but this is turning out to be a big mystery and has gone from tricky to a full blown magic act. On the bright side this is a good learning experience. Having said that I am very appreciative of all the information that I am receiving. It is of a huge help to me with this very difficult and confusing setup.

They are the best shots I have of the bracket arrangement, I think we need someone to measure a car to give the pivot position back from the edge of the quarter panel,
Some one may have assembled the top irons incorrectly and re riveted them the wrong way around.
If you look at the angle the top irons sit at , they seem to go up hill to the windshield posts.
Unfortunately, if you start changing things on the top irons and pivot position, the cloth top it self may not fit anymore.

I think that you may be right about someone reassembling the top irons at some point and reassembled them on wrong. If they did take it apart they took every piece apart because at minimum the main iron connecting at the pivot is reversed and the connection that t's off the may iron would also be reversed. I am thinking with some heat I can bend the irons to point down. That will cause a slight shift in the top but I think that it won't be to hard on the cloth fit. Repositioning the pivot point would be more dramatic. But anything I do must be done before I start positioning the side curtains.

As for the pictures I meant any other pictures of the unmolested roadster that I can use for future reference, regardless of what issue I am looking at.

I have some other pictures, will post them later, on my way to work now.

The original side curtain rods have a cast fitting at the upper end to stop the rod from piercing through the side curtain.
The way you showed the rods fitted before , would mean that they were swapped left to right side also.

It may be that someone took the irons apart and then forgot how to put them back together. My set of irons is 120 miles away so can't photograph them soon.

I had no idea that things were messed up so badly with the top irons. At this point before I go ahead with anything, I think I would like to see pictures of top irons to make sure that I make the situation better and not worse. I would appreciate photos if possible and this is a project that I can put off as long as is necessary. All this information that I am receiving is very important and will be invaluable to me going ahead.

Paul , I have posted another picture of the roadster top irons.
https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/galleries/334267#Post334267

It looks to me like you've got the entire main top bow mounted backwards. That still won't fix the side curtain deal though, because the chrome knob won't change position…

Would a pipe bender and a bit of heat fix those rods? I have one if you need to borrow it.

Did Kerry do the pinstripes? They look nice!

Also, the way the top bows are angled now, I'd be very careful about scratching the paint from the iron dropping down too far…

I think that someone has riveted the pivot plates 1/2 way up the rear iron on the wrong sides, and should be drilled out,repositioned 180 degrees and then the rear irons swapped side to side, and re-riveted to the second back iron.