VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Still wandering across the road...

Hello friends Stateside,
More on my RH drive 23 roadster's tendency to wander across the road of its own accord !
I have taken apart all the steering ball joints, cleaned and re assembled, removed wheel bearings, cleaned and packed with new grease. There's no play in the steering now, it all seems ok. There's some steering wheel travel before anything happens, but I guess this is normal for a car of this period?
I'm now beginning to suggest that this is to do with geometry, so took a look over the car with that in mind. as I look at the front of the car, the positive camber on the RH wheel seems greater than on the left. I measured it and there's 1/4 inch difference. Also there's a quite carefully made wedge inserted under the leaves of the spring on the left hand wheel only, presumably to jack up the spring on that side for some reason?
I'm wondering if the best thing to do is to start from scratch, dissemble all the steering and set up properly. Any advice on how best to do this?
The car drifts over to the right- enough to land me in a heap of trouble, so this needs sorting properly.
Steve

What about your steering gear box? You will not "feel" play in the steering box in a static condition. IE sitting still. Raise the front end off the ground and run the wheel lock to lock and see if you have excessive wear in your steering box. There is an adjustment to the worm gear on the top of the steering gear box and instructions are in the reapir manual. The repair manaul also has procedures for proper toe-in which can cause the car to wander as well. If you don't have the manual you can find a digital one here.

GM Heritage Center Car Manuals

Yes, you'll be in a heap of trouble.

You mentioned the excessive "travel of the wheel" before anything happens. There is your wander condition ... the excessive travel.

The gear box is the heart of the steering. If ALL the linkage is tight, BUT the gear box is still loose, sloppy, "out of adjustment", you will wander.

Below is an excerpt from the 1925 Superior Manual. Whether the '25 gear is the same as your 1923 is not known to me.

Start on page 71, continue to page 72, etc. to see if these instructions fit your '23, as well.

Get the gear box adjusted/repaired and set properly. Then reset your alignment to correct specs.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1925/25crm071.html

When a right hand drive car pulls to the right despite the crown of roads to attempting to move it a bit to the left, you have a real problem. I agree that the toe-in, caster and camber need to be checked and adjusted. The shim on the spring maybe an attempt to correct damage. Seems that you have the steering parts sorted at least as you can. Play in the steering does result in some wander but so does tire inflation and alignment.

Thanks for this, will have a close look at the steering box.
I do wonder if that wedge shaped shim- which is as thick as one of the original spring leaves is to correct some historic accident damage.
Will keep you posted

Wedges are used to correct caster angle of the front wheels, caster angle helps to keep the vehicle tracking straight ahead, and return the wheels to centre after turning corners.

Which way around are the wedges between the springs and the axle?

Hello, This is the United States calling! Just kidding! One thing not talked about often and many people do not consider them when talking about STEERING but the spring bushings, shackles and bolts play a big factor in how an old car will handle. A few thousands of an inch at the bushing may equal a quarter of an inch of racking at the wheel. It made a big difference when I put all new bushings and bolts in my 29 coupe. The bushings in the frame are smaller on my coupe, and the Filling Station now carries them as well as the ones for the springs. My project took 12 shackle bolts, 12 new castle nuts, 8 large bushings, and 4 of the smaller bushings. I used 3/8" all thread rod, and a combination of pipe nipples, pipe fittings and nuts with washers to pull all of the bushings out and install new. Took most of a day and I left one end of the spring attached to the car at all times, so I did not have to remove either axle. Keep them adequately greased and you will never have to do that job again. Keep us posted on your project.

One thing that is often overlooked is the axle itself. After a lifetime of wear and tear they are nearly always bent to a degree. The camber from left to right is not quite the same due to the camber of the roads they are driven on. (left or right hand drive. The fact you have noticable camber diference may indicate a bent axle.

No matter what the final culpit or culprits may be, the steering gear box has to be performing correctly.

If the gear box isn't happy, none of the steering components will be happy.

Good point, 345chevy! I have yet to check an early beam type front axle that wasn't bent. I think the biggest culprit is pulling the vehicle from a mud hole and centering the rope (or chain) in the middle of the axle. Bend them every time. FYI, put the tow strap, rope, chain next to one of the springs so the axle has some support and won't get bent in the process.

Then there are the mini-grand canyon chuckholes that try to not only swallow the whole car but push the wheel back toward the gas tank. Good thing is the average forward speed back then was not nearly as high as today. Think some of the modern chuckholes will rival their ancient ancestors.

Thanks for the reply Jack-
There's only one wedge . Its at the base- below the original two spring leaves. About 3 inches long, beginning at a similar thickness to the leaf springs and tapering to nothing. it has its thick edge at the front of the car, and is drilled to be held in place by the large front fixing bolt, which goes through all of the spring leaves.
It's on the Rh side- the same as the steering wheel and this is the direction in which the car goes for a stroll...
Is it possible to put photographs on to this chat page easily do you know?
I could post a couple if it would help.
Regards
Steve

Hello Guys
I thought it might be a good idea to show you the car.
I will add some close up photographs to the album .
Have a look on You Tube - key in - Grahame White Nut and you will see some photographs of my Chevy and some films of a crazy old cycle car which I got going recently. Will add a Chevy video soon.
Steve

From my 1935 GM-H wheel alignment manual...
"Wander or weave.
1. Too little or unequal caster
2. Looseness in steering assembly
3. Worn kingpins or Bushings
4. Worn or loose bearings
5. Bent Spindle
6. Tight steering assembly.

The factors of steering assembly are so interdependent that any specific trouble may arise from a number of different causes.It will usually be found that not one but several factors are out of line and of course all must be corrected before the car can be expected to operate properly.

When it is impossible to find the car manufacturers recommendations of caster settings , it will usually be found satisfactory to hold the caster from 1/2 to 1 1/2 degrees as these limits apparently give satisfactory steering and usually free from shimmy.
Since caster affects relative toe in and steering geometry we recommend that caster angle be checked and corrected as the first operation.

It is very important that caster angle be alike at both ends of the axle."

Interesting.
How would you change the castor angle if there is a definite discrepancy?
I guess its a job for a forge, or some heavy machinery to correct any bend?
Its an old car, I guess its not beyond the realms of possibility that its had a good whack in its time, or been towed inexpertly as Chipper suggested.
I will keep you guys posted and thanks for all the help.

The tapered wedges between the spring and the axle are how the caster axle is corrected . The wedge which you describe as being about as thick as a spring leaf is very thick. My 1939 axle has about a 1mm thick tapered wedge to correct the caster angle.

I see.
Will investigate, thanks Jack

The more positive caster you have the better it will track straight down the road, but also the caster tha harder it is to turn.

An alignment shop that does trucks should be able to check it for you and straighten it if needed.