VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Excessive steering wheel play '32

With my car at rest I have approx 2 1/2" of backlash or free movement turning the steering wheel before the wheels begin to move.
I read the repair manual and found the excellent pictorial of Oct 2009 by Bill Barker and Peter Z.
Question: Can this condition often be corrected with the described adjustments, specifically the Sector Shaft End Play Adjustment ? The car has maybe 3 or 4 thousand miles since its restoration about 10-15 years ago.

Also, what exactly causes this ? Actual wear of internal parts, bushings, or simply the mechanism simply needs retightening. Fat chance ? I know. I suspect if the adjustments don't take out most of the play, I'm in for a steering box rebuild.
Thanks guys

The biggest reason for play in 1932 steering is worn bushings and pitman shaft. It is a common problem if grease is used instead of high viscosity oil.

It sounds like the steering box not overhauled earlier.

Since you have no body on your chassis , now is a good time to strip the steering box down. If the outer bushing is worn as Chipper has pointed out , you will need to separate the 2 halves of the steering box to remove the pitman shaft, and install new pitman shaft bushes. It is also a good time to install a modern seal on the outside of pitman housing. If the pitman shaft is worn, you may have to find a replacement. Measure it with a vernier or Micrometer at multiple places for taper and out of round. Inspect the worm teeth and sector gear teeth for wear.

Chipper has the details for machining the housing and seal to install.

New bushes can be purchased from the www.fillingstation.com, as well as bearings and gasket. A pitman shaft is a bit harder to find if needed, but do show up on ebay occasionally or may have to place a wanted add in the forums here,

Once the pitman shaft and housing is up to scratch, then reassemble the worm shaft with new bearings if needed, and join the two halve back together ,nd adjust them in the order described in the repair manual.
Fill with the recommended 600W lubricant , and you should be good and safe again.And have no leaks.

Before I pull the steering box I wanted to establish I do in fact have backlash. I attempted to take out the 'backlash" by following the adjustment instructions in the manual, quoted here. With one wrench on eccentric bolt “E” and one on eccentric sleeve “F” turn bolt “E” and sleeve ”F” in opposite directions in gradual stages, noting results by moving pitman arm at each step and using care at the last stage to turn bolt “E” and sleeve “F” just enough to remove backlash and no further. If bolt “E” and sleeve “F” are turned more than necessary, damage to gear will result. In most cases 1/8 turn of bolt “E” and eccentric sleeve “F” should be sufficient.
.

So I first disconnected the drag link, and after several adjustments,the Pitman Arm still swings 1/4" to not quite 1/2" before the steering wheel begins to move. Tightening the eccentric bolt did nothing to lessen this amount of swing.
Can this small amount translate into 2-3 inches of play in the wheel ?

Am I now condemned to pull the box and proceed as you guys explained ? I'm trying to avoid what my signature suggests !

Jack,... the body is on

"the Body is on"
Yes sorry . I confused you with Christech and his 1931 with the body off.

I know you probably wont like it, but the best way to thoroughly assess the steering box is disassemble and clean, then inspect.
I think it will also give peace of mind when driving to know that "all is well"

It is a bit of work to remove the steering wheel, mast clamp, steering box clamp on the chassis rail, and then twist and turn the steering box out, Maybe remove the engine side pans to allow removal from underneath .

The steering worm bearings should always be checked for adjustment prior to trying to remove the pitman shaft backlash.

If the worm bearings are correct, and you cannot remove the backlash from the pitman shaft , the pitman shaft bushing may be allowing the pitman shaft to rock backwards and forwards.

Charlie,
I don't know if the 31' steering box is the same but I believe I have an extra one. The guys here will have to let us know. You can use it (if it's good?, need to check it too) until you do yours as the steering in my chassis is excellent and been redone. We can check it tomorrow when you come by.

Yes, 1931 and 1932 steering boxes are the same.

Jack, thanks for the further explanation. I'll take another stab at it this week, and look at the worm bearings first, but I believe they are tight, we'll see.

But you're right, peace of mind with steering is right up there with the ability to stop.

Ted, perfect, I'll take a look at yours. If it appears sound and all, I'll take it home and install it if I can't fix mine easily. Meanwhile I'll definitely get mine rebuilt and it'll be yours as an exchange. See you tomorrow,no need to email me.
Charlie

"Chipper has the details for machining the housing and seal to install."

Chipper could you tell us the details for machining and seal to install.
thanks

The following written by Doug Bell was published in the G&D about 50 years ago.

Anyone interested in modifying a 1929-1932 Chevrolet steering box so that it will hold gear oil? There is no sector shaft seal, so grease has to be used as the lubricant, in order that it will not run out. Here is an easy fix. Buy National Seal No. 240731, remove the sector shaft housing, mount on a lathe using a 1 inch mandrel which is held in a chuck and counter bore the outside end of the housing approx. 5/32” deep and about 0.004-0.006” smaller in diameter than outside of the seal (the sector shaft bushing may have to be pressed into the housing 1/8" approx.). I have made this change to my1931 and it now holds # 80 steering gear lube without leaking a drop. It sure makes a difference when it gets cold up here.

And the seal part number is still valid.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timken-240731-Oil-Seal-/141251400492

Yes the seals are still available from several sources. Local bearing house should be able to order you one or more. Likely will not have them in stock.

Okay, I made another attempt to remove the rocking back and forth backlash of the Pitman arm to no avail. I just pulled the box. Now what ? Maybe attempt another adjustment as someone once wrote (Don?)
I can get a
more precise adjustment if the unit is out of the
car. Check for a worn sector shaft bushing. One
of the bolts for the two case halves is eccentric
and rotates for correct engagement of worm to the
sector. You might have to remove that bolt to get
enough range for adjustment...

Or proceed to open it up ? I have no idea what exactly to look for ? From what you guys have said, I have a worn sector shaft bushing. I like Chipper's seal replacement idea but I'd have to take it to the local machine shop. It looks like that "bad" wheel bearing grease was put in there.
All opinions welcomed !!

Now that you have it out take it apart and check for wear. If nothing else it will give you a good idea of the adjustment procedure. I also have a 32 and had the same amount of play. Adjusting on my own I still ended up with 1" of play. Having someone guide me that knew exactly how to do it got it down to almost zero. It was not just first one then the other adjustment but rather a back and forth process.

Just remove the bolts holding the two halves together, ,and give the parts a good degrease , or kero wash to wash all the grease out. With the two halves separate and clean inspect the surfaces of the worm for wear. Remove the pitman shaft and clean it and the housing , then replace it into the housing and wiggle it backwards and forwards in a few places and see how tight (or loose ) it is the pitman shaft bushing.

Lightly lube the worn gear bearing with oil and check for how smooth the main steering shaft turns in the main housing. That will help to assess if the worm bearings are adjusted correctly, or damaged and need replacing.

That will give you a pretty good start to fixing the problem.

Thanks for the quick responses. This will certainly get me going in the right direction tomorrow. I'll keep all interested parties apprised as to my progress.

I feel better I yanked it out now. It helps that it's January and 0 degrees out to do these things.

Was in my garage tonight and shut off the heat for about a hour and a half. Holy crap, it's cold tonight! I came in the house and found a box from the FS on my porch. They shipped my order on Monday and it's here clear across the USA on Wednesday! USPS Priority box. Great job FS.

When you turn the steering shaft the pitman shaft will move up and down or back and forth if shaft and/or bushing is worn. It is this movement that gives the majority of backlash and can't be adjusted out.

Yep, I just found up and down movement in the shaft bushings. The bushings have seen better days but the shaft is smooth, no ridges. Worm gear looks equally good.
Now, any opinions on my sector gear shown below ? There's a shiny wear pattern on the gears but doesn't look too severe or deep. Maybe I can adjust it out with the eccentric bolt ?

I got very acquainted real fast after cleaning everything, examining and thinking hard how this assembly works. Not easy for my aging brain.
I'll probably do the Chipper seal mod thing. The seals are easily available.

Looking good Charlie. Probably going to pull mine and do the seal/oil mod. as it's easy right now with just the chassis. Are the bushings easily available? FS? I haven't looked yet, just curious.

You can get the bushings from nearly any bearing house. There are a common size. Most economical to cut a longer bushing into two of the proper length.

See my email on a great deal.

Hardaground,

Decades ago I solved the steering gear lubrication problem on my '36 pickup by machining it for an oil seal and filling the box with gear lube. That works perfectly.

Since then I've learned of another simpler, quicker and less expensive solution. John Deere tractor dealers carry a self leveling steering gear grease called Corn Head Grease. Unlike chassis grease and wheel bearing grease is has a very low viscosity and does not wipe off the steering gear teeth, letting them run dry.

Before I knew about Corn Head Grease a lubrication engineer at Shell Oil gave me some of Shell's version as a "sample". I run it in the Vega steering box of my '32 Ford roadster street rod and from that I can tell you that self leveling grease is just right for a steering box.

And, as Skipper points out it is NOT necessary to resort to specialty suppliers like The Filling Station for bearings, seals, bushings and other such things. Why pay high prices for everyday items.

The other source of your steering looseness is the tie rod ends on the tie rod and drag link. Even when new those stone age, spring loaded things create steering slop. On my '36 PU I found modern MOOG tie rod ends that were direct replacements and yield no-slop steering. Sorry purists, but they fit, work way better and go unnoticed.

Looking at the wear on the sector gear has me thinking about how to repair these worn teeth. With NOS replacements eventually going to dry up, Do we keep throwing out the worn parts which someone might be able to repair in the future, with say a metal spray , or welding and regrinding and re case hardening ?
I think I have only seen one NOS RHD sector shaft for 1931 and 1932, and it was very rusty from poor storage, so our situation here down under is probably worse than for LHD parts.
I do know that there is a steering repair company here in Sydney that claims to repair what others cannot, so maybe they have a rebuilt procedure on sector and pitman shafts.

Is there a steering specialist in the US that does vintage steering boxes and repairs sectors?

Thanks Brino and Jack, Yes, I've heard of the JD Corn Head grease. Good idea.
My neighbor is a corn/dairy farmer and might have some in his tractor shed.


Interesting and sad point about these rare parts, especially for the owners that use their cars regularly as I plan to do. The museum and trailer queens will be okay well into the future I suppose.

I'll eventually check the rest of the linkage for looseness. With plenty of snow and ice on the roads, I'm not going anywhere soon in this car.
BTW, would you mess around with the wear spots if it was yours ?