VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Warning: Ethanol mixtures must be banned from gas!

Jack
Were i live we have at least 5 servos with 91, on long trips in my Chevs, if I can't get 91 then I use 95.
Chris

JD,

Please keep in mind that the words "recently" and "not that old" are relative terms and say nothing factual about the age of an item. Also, unfounded and perpetual blaming ethanol for those defective parts saves explanation of the real reason for their failure.

You see, rather than going into a long explanation of the reason for the failure - left sitting out in the rain, time to go, it went far beyond the manufacturer's recommendation for replacement, etc - it's much easier nowadays for the repairman to just say "ethonal" and let it go at that. Most all the uninformed customers will readily accept this lame excuse and the repairman can get by with it. Therefore, it's likely the customer who is on alcohol.

Just how many additional repairmen has this particular shop hired over the last 20 years or anytime for that matter. Must be real hard to keep up with all the additional business created by the stinkin ethonal, huh? Did you either see or deal with any new Darrel and Darrels around there? Is the name of the shop, Goober's? Does he do hilarious impressions of Cary Grant, like, J U D Y, J U D Y, J U D Y to keep all the local folks entertained?

Thinking that ethanol destroys your engine is tantamount to believing that you're gonna win the lottery and you have just about the same odds of doing so. Mercy!

Keep believing and blaming poor ol' ethanol. It'll be here long after we're gone. It's like the misnomer attributed to the worlds greatest bridge builder who in a foolish moment makes just one teeny mistake in a men's bathroom. From then on he'll be remembered as a (==========) and nothing more.

Eat some "roastin ears" and burn some ethanol. The farmers need us to keep faith.

You are welcome to these well thought out snippets of insight and wisdom. "You betchem' Red Ryder."

Charlie

BTW: Will somebody please check on Solon. He's probably spinning out of control right about now. Poor soul.

Charlie.....I had absolutely no idea that you could tell from 3,000 miles away that the small engine parts on display were possibly damaged from elements other than Ethanol. That is totally amazing!! You must definitely be the man with the "power"! I am also totally impressed with your expertise and qualifications in belittling people and their profession in specific cases where their true documented facts go opposite of what you want your reality to be.

To put you at ease though, none of the guys in the shop are named Darrell, or Daryl, or Larry, or Charlie. And they don't do hilarious impressions of Cary Grant nor do they think that they are Don Rickles attempting to be sarcastically funny on a chat site either. They are normal fellows who have worked years in their profession and are well respected in our community for the work that they do on small engines. I know....this means nothing to you but these fellows do have a lot of experience with what Ethanol (aka...Deathanol) will do to small engines. Of course, you won't believe any of this because the Ethanol fairy still continues to leave selective coins under your pillow each night.

Since you don't comprehend what "recently" or "not that old" means there is no need to go into a discourse regarding same when you can come up with your own whimsical or fictional definition to suit your needs. At any rate, the metal and rubber parts that are on display on the customer counter are there for the "non-believers" like yourself to see what Ethanol can, in the real world, do to small engine parts. And no, none of this stuff has been laying out in the various NC weed lots in the rain and snow for years. As an experiment, one of the parts was soaked in Ethanol gasoline in a metal container in the shop and after a period of time the part was totally corroded......as was the metal container that it was soaking in!

Thinking that Ethanol is "really good stuff" and that Ethanol is nature's "gift" to mankind is tantamount to believing in your good buddy "Goober" the Easter Bunny dude. Mercy!!!

41specialdeluxe, please!

You will never get me into any form of a "tennis match" here. (Your turn??), and if you want me as a replier in the future, use Solan, not anything else. And leave out quite unnecessary harassments about other nations and people here.

I must clarify somewhat:
I am not against using ethanolmixtures to the engines proven to be working without trouble because of the ethanol.

I am talking of the vehicles and engines that most certainly will be ruined by using a higher blend than E 5. Many of us are wanting to use our old vehicles by driving as original as possible, showing people we can do the same as our grand grand fathers did. And the machinery works without having to change any parts, due to ethanol influence! We do not want to modify our vehicles because of the added ethanol in all pumps, without leaving one without at most gas stations.

We are afraid of the pressure the ethanol producers are holding on the authorities will practically result in no pumps without ethanol or the minimum blend will be E 10 or more.

The corn producers are certainly doing a respectable job for their own cause, but they and the authorities also should have tested the influence from ethanol on older engines, machinery and vehicles BEFORE they started the big campains, avoiding the problems easier.

You have little reason to claim that the ethanol is not the reason for the damage to our older engines. Only your belief! People around is telling stories from their own experiences so why not accept what they say?

I am nearly certain you will not easily listen and accept to "my side" (the motor hobby) so the discussion here is somewhat useless in the future I think. Discussion only for the discussion to try to "win the world" is not my style.

Have a pleasant Sunday.

I totally agree with you, J.D..
Ethanol was a disaster in the US from day one as evidenced by the non use of this gas for marine and aviation sectors. Let's all be grateful we can still buy pure gas from a variety of stations. (www.pure-gas.org for a list.)

Hopefully the EPA will come to its senses and not force the dreaded E-15 on us. Even the car companies are opposed.

My two cents.

This is such a long topic now , and maybe it`s already been told ....but at a local marina they have 2 jars on display ....one with the corn gas and one with non corn gas. after a month or so ( don`t have exact period of time)the non corn is a solid clear to yellowish liquid ....and the corn gas has 3 distinct layers ....separated by a thin dark 2nd layer of the corn goo ....don`t know all the particulars of the visual demonstration , but supposed to show the stuff accused of gumming up the works . Definitely stuff that doesn't gel together for long ....

David,

The static demonstration of ethanol gas and non-ethanol gas is mere smoke and mirror snake oil hype. Of course the properties in gasoline such as ethanol will, over enough time and sitting still, separate. This is because of gravity. You can also separate it by centrafuge (sp), molecular screening, etc. Reference the Manhatten Project for making bomb quality uranium.

The static display in a jar proves nothing and, more, does not demonstrate how ethanol will affect engine parts.

I think it's time for show and tell. I can't do so because you can't prove a negative. Those, who believe that 10% ethonal laced gasoline destorys parts should be able to and should put up or shut up. That can be done by merely showing the effects of 10% ethonal gasoline on some engine part. The destruction must state that the defective part was affected by the 19 percent ethonal in gasoline alone and could not have caused by any other source. Simple? Sure. So why haven't we seen some of that stuff?
Does it exist? Well, maybe, but I haven't seen any of it.

Will ethanol separate in a jar? Sure. So what? All small engines have the caveat that the fuel is supposed to be drained from the carb. before storing the engine. No need to do that anymore, you can always blame ethanol for any adverse results. And, no matter about the gasoline in the tank. It is always better to use fresh gasoline.

Charlie

OK guys, we are all lovers of old Chevys and are all entitled to our own opinions, so lets all be friends! I think there are pros and cons to both ethanol and straight gas which I am not going into tonight. So lets just lighten up and realize that what we think will probably not have much effect on what happens in our fuel supply, I hope we all have the choice to buy what we want at the pump but I guess that is not the case in all locations.

Uncle Ed,

Just when I have those suckers on the ropes and ready to throw in the towel, you come along and plead mercy for them. Yes, we're all brothers in our love for old Chevrolets and want to restore and preserve them but, come on, this attack on corn alcohol is unwarranted and based more an old wives tale than facts.

Did you fail to note just when this here little squabble turned to war? Yep, tis now. And, my side (of one, it seems), ain't about to take no prisoners.

Besides, here I've been very gentlemanly and what do I get, death from a thousand cuts. Yep. Everyone attacks me and all I have in my defense is the facts, which almost everyone else seems to ignore.

And now you've "gone over the hill."

Somebody, let me hold your your 45. Please.

Charlie

BTW: No body has more respect for JD and Solon than me. Really.

Aw Charlie, I still share your views on ethanol but we aren't going to change any ones mind and I just don't think it is worth arguing about. I hope everyone can have the choice to use what they want, fortunately I do in my area but regular is 30 t0 50 cents more here than ethanol.
Have a great day!

Repeated message in case someone here missed the first one from some month ago:

SEMA has been very active the last years to avoid using ethanol in older vehicles. Quote: Ethanol’s chemical property poses a risk to older cars and motorcycles. Ethanol absorbs water, which can lead to metal corrosion. It can also dissolve plastics and rubber. Most older vehicles and many motorcycles were not constructed with ethanol-compatible materials and Quote: The EPA has now authorized 15% ethanol while acknowledging the dangers posed to older vehicles and motorcycles.

The same have Historic Vehicle Association https://www.historicvehicle.org and AACA http://www.aaca.org/ been informing about the dangers of using ethanol in older vehicles.

SEMA is a great organization which we should support. I belong and frequently write my local elected representatives to urge them to continue the fight against this big mistake.
Check the website (www.sema.org) to get updates on your particular state legislation.

SEMA stands for Speciality Equipment Marketing Association. What do they know about ethanol. Not much.

It seems one of their interests may be in selling you something you don't need or condemn something you have for something they think is better. Whatever.

Again, I have seen no proof that the regular use of 10% ethanol in gasoline hurts a thing except the pockets of oil barons. Let's put it another way. That ten percent means that the oil companies get 10 percent less and our Uncle Ed get 10 percent more. Corn is a renewal crop. Fossil fuel is not.

I can't understand why some good thinking people such as we have in the VCCA can't jump on the band-wagon for ethanol with the enlightened rest of us. In truth, I suspect that only a few of you nay-sayers have actually suffered any failures that could be directly attributed to the 10% ethanol in gasoline.

The quest to shut down ethanol uses nothing more than smoke and mirrors to support their claim of wheel bearing or any gasoline related failure.

It's like rum cake. Some of you would eat it, run into a ditch, claim being drunk, and then send grandma a bill for the wrecker. Mercy!

Charlie

Here you can see for yourselves what the ethanol is doing to a lot of older vehicles and engines:

http://www.historicvehicle.org/Resources/Resources/Ethanol/Ethanol-Video

Here is what HVA informed when RFA wanted the gas blend to be changed to E 15:

http://www.historicvehicle.org/~/media/Files/HVA/Media%20Center%20Files/Ethanol%20Information/PDF/Ethanol_FAQ_Flyer.ashx

Let us keep the gas, free from ethanol to our older vehicles. The brand new ones (and racing cars) produced to tolerate E 10 and E 15 can easily use ethanol blending. So why not keep pumps for both needs to keep our vehicles run without damages?

With all due respect you are completely wrong with respect to SEMA. Take some time and read up on the organization. They are the only organization with the resources to monitor and report on 50 state legislature actions regarding the old car hobby,and they monitor legislatures' bills and actions on a wide variety of topics including laws banning aftermarket exhausts, unregistered vehicles, etc.. True they're not fuel chemists but more of a watchdog organization with links to experts.

More clarifying news about E 10 and E 15:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_disadvantages.html

http://www.fuel-testers.com/e15-new-gas-approved.html

These two links should make it clear that ethanol is no way the right liquid to add and use in our old cars and motorbikes, together with lots of marine engines, lawn movers, etc. etc. of different ages.

just bought a new chain saw at sears(Poulan) , and the inst. book says up to 10% corn is ok ...... but,stay away from any other mixture though 15% ,flex fuel etc ..... The counter person at Sears said DO NOT RUN ETHONAL in the chain saw -it will not run. How come the manuf. says 10% is OK ? haven't fired it up yet , but I would bet it will run fine on the 10% corn. I always drain and run the equiptment dry for any extended time out of use ....I DO run Non E in my 1940 ?????givin me a headache!

The Stihl dealer I bought a new saw from this past year sells premixed gas with additive and advised to keep the tank full when in storage. The fuel will last up to two years, but running dry allows the air to dry out any residue in the tank and cause future problems. I am sure there are opposite opinions on this practice.

Here is a link to Great Britain and what motor enthusiasts there write about ethanol mixing the gas and the problems you could get driving an old vehicle:

http://www.mossmotors.com/sitegraphics/pages/ethanol.html

Solon,

Did you even read this article? It is full of things that "could" or "may" happen nothing that will happen. It is just another article bent on doing away with ethanol no matter the percentage of mis. It's another scare for the uninformed based on smoke and mirrors, nothing more.

Ethanol is a good thing and is the best mix for gasoline that has ever come down the pike. Better than sliced bread. Don't know about sliced bread over there? Well, instead of breaking off a hunk from a loaf of bread to sop up some gravy from your scrabble and such, you can just peal off a slice and whalla a nice evenly cut that will even lend itself to make non-lumby sandwiches. How is that for an invention?

Anyway, back to this latest epistle about the negatives of ethanol. We have been using it over for years not and there have been no evidence of any parts failure that can be directly and solely pointed to ethanol. Not hart a one.

Who is behind this propaganda campaign anyway? The Middle East?

Before going off the slippery slope and buying into every story that come by always ask yourself. "who stands to gain?" Use some logic instead of loose rhetoric.

I hope you'r having a good sleep tonight what with all those ethanol gremlins lurking about.

Best,
Charlie

Ever wonder way the small engine manufacturers have not used materials that would work with 10 percent ethanol when have had it so long. Maybe they like selling parts. The auto manufacturers have made the change long ago.

I don't "like" ethanol , we have had it here for about 20 years. I can't say that I ever had a problem with it other than in my small engines and in evaporation. I have never had a fuel pump with any special diaphragms, never had a gas hose rot, (they all rot after many years) had tanks with ethanol in all four cars sit over two years without being run and had no problems.
A lot of examples pictured in these post can happen with or without ethanol and a lot happened before ethanol was even on the market. Anything that happens to a fuel syste gets blamed on ethanol.
I do not fill my tanks for the winter and never keep them above the 1/4 mark unless I am going on a trip.

Where I live regular unleaded fuel is readily available and this is what I normally use however I did have a problem once when I left some e10 in my vintage motorbike for over a month. When taking one of my 1935s (Master and Standard}on a long run of 4 or 500 miles I purposely use e10 as I feel with its mild corrosive properties it probably helps clean any internal rust or corrosion in the fuel lines carburettor etc. As I get closer to home I start using regular again so that there is no e10 in the tank while the cars are sitting again. So far I have had no problems and would be interested in others opinions on this idea.

345Chevy,

I don't know if your system helps much one way or the other. But I've seen those Mad Max films and I suppose you are glad to have plenty of gasoline even e10. For now, anyhow.

Charlie

I have read every post in this stream and have also responded but a question comes to mind and that is if Alcohol is so bad then why are the cars in a south american country running on alcohol only and have been doing it for years. They lack dino fuel so alcohol is mostly all that is available.