VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 41 frame replacement

I purchased a frame to replace mine. My current frame has rust damage, and alignment issues from a previous accident. The new frame has been sandblasted and given a couple of coats of paint and has been leaning against my garage wall for the last 6 years. I am now ready to switch frames. Please advise me of some concerns I should have with maintaining the structural integrity of the body during the switch. Should I even remove the doors to lighten the weight of the body?

I been thinking of stacking concrete blocks under the body in a number of areas to support the body while I lower the frame. What might be some key areas needing support so the body stays aligned (doesn't sag or bend)? Are concrete blocks strong enough to hold up the body. I need to stack them 3 foot high with a piece of wood between the body and the blocks. Once the frame is lowered I will put 4"x4" X 8' wood beams under the body and support them with the cement blocks at the ends of the beams. I now will be able to push the old frame out from under the body and continue my restoration work on its underside.






I assume I will put an 8' beam under the edge of the trunk.



Another beam I would put under the two front feet.



I don't know if I would need one or two more beams under the middle of the body?



Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving, Mike

With the doors closed the body can be supported from the ends without bending or breaking. Some have lifted using board through the front door and quarter windows. Major considerations are having the cross beams of sufficient size (to handle weight and long enough so frame can be wheeled out) and supports stable. Have never used cement blocks but should work okay. I have used 55 gal. drums. I would estimate body at 800-1000 lbs. with seats etc. installed. That puts 250 lbs on each stack.

I would not use concrete blocks at that height, they are not stable enough. The 55 gallon drum is a much more stable idea. I would also use a suitable length of 4 x 4 at each end for the lifting and storage support.
Tony

Mike,

Good advice so far.

I think you may be able to use cement blocks though. Just don't have them and the metal next to each other. That is, cover the top cement block with a piece of wood 2x6 or 2-8 or whatever will fit nicely at strong points of the body's underside. That way the load will be essentially across the whole block instead of at some weak/weaker point.

I would highly recommend taking the Fulton off. It will cause the body to be out of balance and all kinds of problems, some unheard of. Toss it in your in your scrap heap out back and next time you're going to go by a dump get rid of it. Remove the seats too. But keep them.

You may want to remove the doors owing to their weight and limited help in preventing any warp but remember that they are tough to put back just right. I'd leave them on. Your body is not nearly so keen to warpage as cabriolet' is.

Whoever cleans your garage, you don't pay them enough. Place looks like a laboratory. You're about as focused on neatness as Steve. I don't believe I could work in such an environment.

Good luck with the project.

Charlie

BTW: If that is a Master Deluxe you have there, and whilst you're going to all that trouble anyway, you may want to consider swaping out the body for a Special Deluxe 5-passenger coupe instead. Much cuter I think. Just saying. I believe consensus would support me on that. Maybe not.

BTW2: Or you could get one of those pickup/coupes. That way you would have something with which to haul the Fulton to the dump. Just toss it in the back and off you go. Also, pigs to market, cows (small ones), hay, rolls of barbed wire, chickens and kids will fit nicely back there. No problem. Nothing to mess up either. Who would care. Just shovel out the debris whenever it gets too deep. I think those P/Cs were primarily designed for use as honey wagons.

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for the great advice. I did drool over the Ute that was just on ebay for $16,500. Thanks for the good morning humor, but "I got to be me. Whether I'm right, or whether I'm wrong?"

Happy Thanksgiving, Mike

I saw this picture on Stovebolt. It seems a lot easier working with wood than cement blocks? With a bad back cement blocks might be too hard to handle? I'm thinking of using 3 cement blocks high per lift point (24 inches high). Having atleast a set of blocks in the front and back, and maybe even somewhere in the middle so 18 total blocks.

The problem I have is that I need to finish rust repair on the running boards with the frame out of the way so want to be under the car quite awhile over several months. I need a system that is safe for me to work on the car's underside. I don't want to spend the money or build a rotisserie. I also want to do the work on my back. Doing the work sitting is hard on my back and neck. Still wondering thanks, Mike

I vote 50 ( or 35 ) gallon drums with 6 by 6 wood beams . no guarentees - your mileage may vary . be safe . frank

I'd be filling the drums with water for stability..maybe cable through the windows to the roof for insurance...

I'll go with the insurance part !

When I decided to pull the body on a '52 BelAire, I had to figure out a way to do it in a fairly small garage and by myself. After a lot of consideration, I came up with a simple system that worked very well.

After all attaching bolts were removed, I managed to raise the body, with an engine hoist, enough to slide a 4x4 10' long between the body and frame at the approx. center of the body, at the door jam where there was a re-enforcement and an original mount bracket.

I bolted the 4x4 to the body brackets and proceeded to raise the body about 2" at a time side to side. I used two HD truck jack stands to support the 4x4. It was slow but fairly safe to deal with. This isn't something you want to rush on!

In my case, by accident, the body was fairly well balanced, and I was able to control any "tilt" with a ratchet strap on each end attached to a beam in the ceiling, also adjusted on each lift.

When I reached a comfortable height, I removed the rear wheels, lowered the differential to a "dolly", and pulled it out from under the body. At this point, I moved the jack stands inboard under the body structure for safety. I could have replaced the jack stands with concrete blocks at this point but I was comfortable with the stands.

The body was high enough to work on comfortably, on my back of course. When finished, I lowered the body to the frame in reverse steps.

The problem is how to get the body high enough to place drums or multiple concrete blocks under it without a forklift or some other lift system in a limited space. My approach was pretty simple and worked very well.

The only lingering problem was that I used a grinder with a wire brush to do most of the cleanup and for weeks afterward I pulled wire strands out of every part of my body!

2" wide ratchet straps would be better than cable; not so likely to cause damage. And filling the drums maybe a quarter full should suffice.

A good face shield and full body leathers would come in handy for protection!

Want to thank everyone for their comments, but like gpallen2 I have limited space to work in. I need to devote part of my garage for frame work and part for body work. Unfortunately, I will be doing the work over atleast a one year period and need every inch of space for other things to also putter on. Because of this I don't see barrels as a good option (they would take up two much room). I am looking at cement blocks or wood blocks, like those shown in the above post, as reasonable options.

Still wondering what is the best way to do things as I am disassembling the car? Thanks, and best wishes, Mike

If you decide to use wooden blocks do not stack them as shown in the photo above. They should all be the same size and placed two on two in a square pattern to give support in all directions. I would much rather read your post here than see your name in the last forum. If you are going to have the support piling out past the body line I would use a 6x6 rather than the 4x4. When you purchase the cross supports let the supplier know what you are using them for so you get the correct type of lumber. I think some of the pressure treated pine is about as ridged as wet spaghetti.

Hello Mike,
I've seen this up here in New England.....

If you have the space (and budget) in front of the garage door you could erect a portable garage right up against the wall of your garage in front of the door.

Turn the car around and block it up in the heated portion of your garage for body work. Roll the frame out from under the car and move it into the portable garage. This way you could do the mechanicals out of the weather at your leasure.

Great idea Dave, but my current plan is to roll the old frame into the second bay of my garage. It will be tight but there I can swap out the good parts on my old frame onto the new one.

Here are some pictures of how I lifted the body off of the frame. I did have a problem finding all the bolts I needed to remove (brain fart) to lift the body. I missed the 4 under the back seat and the two in the front floor. I have decided to use 2 seven foot steel 1 by 3 inch rectangular tubes to lift the body off of the frame. When the frame is out of the way I will put an additional steel tube under the rear seat where the 4 bolts are located. Using two jacks made the lift easier and hopefully put less stress on the body.

Next, I plan to get some cement blocks to hold up the body, but that will wait for a week while I visit the grandkids.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and best wishes , Mike



I think the area closest to the door pillar is the strongest area on the front underbody?





There is a good size pad right under the trunk handle that makes a good area to lift the back end of the body. The entire underbody along the bottom edge of the trunk is well reinforced. This made a perfect area for my rear, steel, rectangular tube to hold the body above the frame.

Using a 2x4 (or other long relatively thin extension) on a floor jack is asking for trouble. The wheels on the floor jack can roll when not expected (particularly if everything is not perfectly aligned). Don' t bother to ask me how I know.

I would rather see you use a substantial piece of angle iron than rectangular tubing. The relatively thin walled tubing does not have the strength of a 4x4 or 4x6 nor the cross section to keep it from shifting, twisting, etc.

If you plan to crawl under the suspended body double or triple safety supports are required. I already know several that have had their last look at the bottom side of a raised vehicle. Don't want to read another VCCA member obit.

Mike --

Gonna jump in here with both feet!!

As an old retired ironworker I have done a lot of rigging in my career, anywhere from light iron to 50 ton presses and anything in between. Also have set up some mighty big cranes and I can assure you that you NEVER stack steel on steel!! It is like a skating rink. Have had brother ironworkers killed doing that and seen mighty close calls. My advice to you is to use wood in your project. If you do use steel, than at least put a softner between the steel, even a piece of rubber or wood to keep the steel from shifting. That picture of the chevy with wood stacked as outriggers is the correct way of doing it!! Doesn't make any difference as to the thickness of the wood, as long as you stack as that photo shows. I prefer wood to solid concrete blocks as its a lot easier to handle and just as effective.

Do what you want, but do not stack steel to steel or even steel to a car body as its the same thing.

Best to ya and be careful!!!!!!!!

Jim.

I agree with jdv123 except for the rear stack of wood in the photo. The wood blocks should be at right angles to each other as in the front and the best support would be in a square pattern to provide support in all directions. It wouldn't take much of a side push to cause it to fall. The comments about steel stacking is right on the money.

Admittedly I'm the new guy here (just joined!), but in restoring old tractors, concrete blocks are never recommended for support. All it takes is one block shattering unexpectedly to rain down a ton of metal on you. Wood blocking is the way to go.

Hi Mike,
want to lift the body this year, too. Can you tell me how many bolts are in there? I´ve found only eight?! Two near the trunk and three on each skirtside.
on your pictures i see two more in front of the firewall, right?
Is there anywere a discription how to lift off the Body from Frame? Can ´t found it in the manual?

Hi Andre,

On the frame for 1940-48 there are 11 bolt holes on each side of the frame to attach the body. Here is the only on-line picture that I am aware of. Hopefully, others can find a better picture? 1940 to 48 frame. You are right about there being 2 bolts holes on each side of the frame at the firewall (four holes). I know of no manual explanation on how to remove the body from the frame.


The following pictures show where body bolts are attached to my frame. I really like using 6 truck jack stands to make the transfer easier and safer. Hopefully the 40 body doesn't have more challenges because of the running boards. Time and patience are important and you will soon realize if you begin lifting the body and you have not located a bolt!

Good luck on your next great adventure, Mike

P.S. Good job locating the above posts to begin your planning.

For those of you who have disposable money, time, and space, this distributor has a good variety of lifts to choose from, and probably would be safer than using blocks. The DE store is located about 10 miles from where I live.

I spent about an hour in there dreaming of having some of their stuff. I am sure I would have saved a lot of time if I had some of their stuff.

Prices are lower than you would think, as most of the equipment is made in that other country.

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/

Hi Mike,
thanks for the pictures. Seems, there are more bolts under the carpet

What is necessary to remove to lift of the body? Linkage to Brake,Clutch,Accelerator,Fender,Hood I know. Need to remove the steering column? Engine and gearbox can be at place?