VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 thermostat failed to open then disaster

Hi there,
My thermostat did not open and the engine was cooked, it failed to proceed and the head gasket was blown....bad luck I guess..I had overheating problems for 12 months and I think that this was the final thing that sent the old girl over the top...
I need to identify the engine so I can order parts from the filling station.
cast into the head, under the rockers is: 887682 and then B165..
On the push rod side of the engine is: 1765434 and B185.
the engine number is MR4757893.

from these identification marks what is the engine that I have in my car? its a 34 Holden body but 35 chassis and running gear as far as I know?
any information that you can shed on this is greatly appreciated..


Pics of the strip down:

Peter..

.....[bleeped]....thats not good blue....all that good work...
...........blown.......

To check to see if the thermostat was functioning properly. Put water in pot, get it to come to a boil. Using pliars, dip the thermostat into the water and watch to see if it opens, if so your thermostat is functioning properly . , It should also close when removed from the boiling water.

With rad cap /ornament mascot off , you should have been able to watch the water/antifreeze flow across the opening. This tells you your thermostat is functioning properly within the engine when warmed up.

Your chassis and driveline came here from Canada as a C K D, = COMPLETE KNOCK DOWN.

mike

Hi there,
I did the hot water test as soon as I removed the thermostat from the housing, and it did not open at all. I did the test 3 times and it still would not open....bummer..
So its forward I go today, and with the help of a friend we will lift off the bonnet and attach lifting gear to the now stripped down head and with the engine hoist gently lift the head off the block.
It will be most interesting to see what is reveled!
I will post pictures later. But first I have to find out what the engine is so as to order parts from the filling station?
regards
Peter :aust:

PETER..........I do know that a cylinder head gasket for a 1934 standard series motor is different than a 1935 standard engine.

MAJOR BUMMER on the thermostat, I FEEL YOUR PAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

lets hope the pain of overheating the motor doesn't go much beyond a blown cylinder head gasket. Have your machine shop check it with zi-glow for cracks.

Lets also hope you have not totalled the engine, let us now pray !

Know whats damaged before you start ordering any parts

mike

Hi Peter,

Here is some information on your motor:

B 18 5 is a casting date of February 18, 1935.

B 16 5 is a casting date of February 16, 1935.

Engine serial number MR4757893 indicates a Standard motor (M), right hand drive (R), with the following serial number placing its build date in 1935:

http://clubs.hemmings.com/chevytalk/GMhistory/1935to1937motors.html


Head casting number 837682 was a "new" head used on 1935 motors replacing the 837230 head:

http://clubs.hemmings.com/chevytalk/GMhistory/1916-57cast.html

According to this -

"All 1935 models used the # 837230 (15 long bolts) Head until serial numbers; # 4783317 (Master), M4862180 (Standard) and T4860723 (Truck). This information was found in S-M Bulletin # 28 dated 4-4-1935.

The new 1935 head # 837682 (8 long and 7 short bolts) was also used on ALL models, not just the Standard.

The 1936 motors ALL had the # 837981 (8 long and 7 short bolts), this head changed the compression ratio from 5.4:1 in 1935 to 6:1. This Head became the replacement Head for the 1935 motors."

Good luck with your rebuild. At least you got the fuel gauge working.
Is that a Series I or Series II Land Rover in your garage?

Happy Motoring,

Dan

I had a thermostat fail on my 57, so when I went to get a new one the sales clerk asked me if I want an Israeli one. He said they always fail open. It cost twice as much, but that what I run now. If anyone is interested I will get the name of them and post it.
John

Well John, I for one would like that info on the "fail open" thermostat!!! The company must manufacture them for all sorts of vehicles. So "twice the price" is actually a cheap thermostat - especially if you don't bake the engine, EH.

Hi there Dan,
Thank you for all the information, it never fails to impress me on the knowledge base that is available on this forum. I will print out your post for future reference. That was the good news, now for the very bad news.......
I took the head into my local engine repair shop, they have done numerous jobs for me in the past and do a fine job to boot.
One hour ago they phoned me and said that the head was cracked in 5 places, emanating from the exhaust valve seats. When the engine was rebuilt I had hardened valve seats installed so as to use unleaded fuel in the future, and that is exactly where the cracks start from.The head is not repairable, so now I have to find another sound head.

Is the engine called 206 CID???

It there anyone in Australia who has a cylinder head for sale?

When the exhaust and inlet manifold was removed I noticed that the heat actuated flap inside the exhaust manifold was rusted solid. When I rebuilt it I paid particular attention to this flap, making sure that it worked freely. It was jammed in the upright position, so that it was virtually blocking the exhaust gas from flowing freely out of the system, and directing the gas upwards to the inlet, preheating the upper manifold. I wonder if this was the reason why the performance was so poor, acceleration was woeful and I also question if this would help to create overheating problems, other than the thermostat jamming shut???

I have removed the flap completely and left the shaft intact. Should I install a blanking plate across the upper inlet aperture so the gas will just flow out and forget about the preheating qualities of the device????

The land-rover is my series one 1952, my very first full restoration, back in 1984 she was finished and now needs another general tidy up. I use her most weeks doing jobs in the paddock, I have owned her for 29 years.

life was not meant to be easy...

Peter

You need a cylinder head from a 1935 standard a 1935 master a 1936 standard and a 1936 master = 207 cubes.

hopefully you should be able to locate the needed part in AUstralia. Guess advertising for one in the auzzie vintage car newspapers or whatever you have down under as a source of parts .

good luck

mike

Hi there Mike,
so is my engine definitely a 206 CID 207 cubic inch engine?

this is the gasket

Peter

Dan R, published all the info you need in a reply above, to figure out whether you have a 34 motor or a 35-36 motor that's supposed to be in the car.

mike

It looks like you maybe just needed to retorque that head, I don't see where the gasket blew out.

There are indications that there was 'blow by' on three bridges on the head gasket. I would expect a warped head/block by those indications. There is no need for hardened valve seats, or different valves. You will not be around long enough to experience seat erosion.

[quote=blueyAU]Hi there Mike,
so is my engine definitely a 206 CID 207 cubic inch engine?

this is the gasket



YES THATS A 1935--1936 CHEVROLET GASKET, get yourself a new copper and asbestos one.
mike

Peter, do not let anybody tell you to re-use the old cylinder head gasket. !!!!!

okay, MAJOR QUESTION , why did the gasket fail ??? in 3 places.
Yes you can see where in 3 places the gasket was leaking. Talk to your machine shop



First you need to check the top of the block with a straight edge corners to corners with feeler gauges. Not sure what the maximum run out allowed is, cannot remember, someone else will supply that info.

you said the cyl head is toasted, so the search begins for a new one that's usable without cracks .

make sure you get new head checked for cracks and have the surface machined to absolute straight.

make sure you have brand new head bolts, because the biggest source of cylinder head gasket failure is stretched head bolts. if they have ever been over torqued the bolt has been stretched beyond what its supposed to be. the bolts must apply the correct clamping effect to the head.

Use a digital or a clicker torque wrench to re-install and torque the head too the correct torque. Its also important to follow the correct bolt torque sequence. that sequence should be posted in your shop manual.


mike

I went by Autozone today and looked at one. The name on the box is FAIL SAFE, they are imported by MotoRadUSA.com. country of manufacture is Israel.

look at the picture with the 3 dark patches on it, that's where the head gasket was leaking water anti freeze into the cylinders, you can also see the rust forming in those cylinders.

Its never as simplistic as just re torqueing the head bolts.

If the job was done right to specifications in the first place there would be no need to re torque.

mike

I agree Mike about if it were done right in the first place. I don't ever remember seeing a cyl. head gasket with that much leakage and no real physical damage to the head gasket. It almost looks as though it was not torqued down at all as water appears to have leaked in all cylinders.

BLUEAU...........PETER.

I have a friend in queensland who has 35 touring and he has a friend who has moved from queensland down to N S W who has 35 chev restored.

Mark is going to ask his friend down there in NSW if he has any or any contacts on one.

Mark asked me where you are located. ?????????????????????

mike

Hi there Mike,
I am located at Taree, on the mid north coast, in New South Wales. About 5 hours drive north of Sydney.
I had a look at the head at the engine place and he shone an ultra violet light on the combustion chambers, all the cracks showed up and almost every exhaust valve seat had cracks emanating from the hardened valve seats.It is totally beyond repair. I also noticed when dismantling the head that the original head bolts had been used again and that 2 were new HT bolts of the modern kind. As you recommend, new bolts should be used and should have been used in the previous rebuild!
Now the quest to find another engine of heads.

Peter

I agree with you, at 69 another 10 years if I'm lucky?

That's where the friend of the friend has moved too NSW, exactly where I do not know, still awaiting word from Mark Taylor up in Queensland.
Will let you know if his friend comes up with anything for you.

mike

Peter --

Don't really have the words to help you, but I am very sorry and angry that this has happened to you with your beautiful 34.

Will be watching to see how things turn out for you and I do wish you the best in dealing with this problem.

Jim.

PETER...........my friend MARK TAYLOR up in Queensland said that his friend in N S W, do not know exactly where in that state he is, has some cylinder heads for 35--36 Chevrolet.

He says that the cylinder heads would have to be checked for cracks

contact me DIRECTLY at mike350@rogers.com and I will give you Mark Taylors email address to contact him for his friends name and address in NSW.

mike