VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 216 babbit bearing

Hello Everyone,

I've been working on different aspects of my car and finally got around to the task of replacing all the rod bolts after stretching one during a check of rod bearing clearances. I was finally able to secure a complete set.

(This is a '38 short block installed by the owner previous to my uncle. )

I removed the #1 rod cap and planned to add bearing assembly lube to the cap and rod bearing surface and discovered what appears to be babbit material piled up at the parting line of the cap and rod. (this is only on one side of the of the oil groove.) The babbit material is rough to the touch on that side but the other side still appears like new.
The crank journal has an "image" on the corresponding side as the offending bearing, but is smooth to the touch. So tomorrow night a friend is bringing over his mikes to check it. Being an engine builder, he says the journal looks good and feels smooth to the touch all the way around.
If the journal measures okay I'll contact Kanter and ask if it's possible to purchase one babbit connecting rod.
We checked the rest of the rods and found all were okay. But we did notice on a couple that there appears to be babbit "slag" near the parting line that needs to be removed.
This is my first babbit engine so any suggestions would be appreciated.

While I am not highly conversant with babbit bearings I would be very suspicious of babbit shifting like that as I would suspect lack of lubrication at some stage.
Tony

Are these reconditioned rods? A photo would be helpful.

With the recommended procedure of initially setting the bearings on the tight side, it should not be unexpected of for a bit of babbitt to be scraped off an high spot during initial run in. The relief at the parting line may have been put there just for that situation. I don't know why else unless it is a means for oil to flow out of the bearing. As long as the bearing does not show any overheating, excessive wear or deteriorated babbitt I wouldn't worry to much about it.

From what you describe, it sounds like the engine was run when it was low on oil. The damage was due to a lack of lubrication.

Melissa
Earl's Machine Shop
Seattle, WA.

I agree with Chipper. I'd clean it up, adjust as needed, button everything back up and run it. In defference to Melissa make sure there are 5 quarts of 10w-30 oil in it.

Charlie

I would agree with Melissa if there was evidence of damage to several other bearings and any evidence of smearing or melting of bearing surfaces.

Heres the latest......I can't post pics because I down loaded an up-grade that has messed with my ability to move pics from photobucket to this site or any where for that matter.

The rod journal is smooth and undamaged. We (meaning my buddy with the correct tools) measured the journal in 3 places and found it to be 10 under stock as marked on the first crank counter weight.

I wish I could post pics to show the damage to the babbit, but it is significant enough that I dare not "button it" up. The rest of the rods are perfect.

I e-mailed Kanter because they listed a single babbit connecting rod price in their catalog but it turns out that I have to mail them mine and wait 4 weeks for it to be reworked......that kind of sucks. So between now and Sunday I'll check around and see if there is anyone local. If not, then I'll bite the bullet and send it to them this up-coming Monday and consider this year a wash out.

If it were me, I would go for a rod converted for inserts. You would then have an insert with modern bearing material.

If one rod was affected I wonder if you have a hole in the dipper trough.

The problem was caused by two possible things. First if the crankshaft is .010" undersized the babbitt on te rod is made thicker to compensate for the under size. Not a good thing to have babbitt that thick. Often causes rod to loosen upand require readjusting.
The second thing is they may have used too soft of a babbitt.

Make surre when you get a new rod it is .010" under sized.
Try the Filling Station or Chevs of the '40's and see if the have a rod converteed to inserts and a .010" under insert. The insert shell will be undersized so the babbitt applied to the insert will be very thin.
The under sized crank indicates the engine is a rebuilt of some kind. Chevrolet used only standard sizes (till 1956)

I have over the years purchased NOS GM parts, including rods, from Mooney's Antique Parts, Goodrich, Texas. Ph 936-365-2899.
I don't know what his current status is, it's been several years since I contacted, but he did have at one time a pretty sizable inventory. Worth a try.

I think that I heard somewhere that either Mooney retired or he passed away. Someone on this site probably knows the answer.

Mr. Mooney passed on several years ago. The person that acquired his stuff has dispersed the parts. Not sure where they might have gone.

Thanks for the update!

Give Don a call at Don's Antique Auto Parts, 37317 Niles Blvd, Fremont, CA 94536, (510) 792-4390.

He has acres of old stuff (and more importantly, knows where everything is!). When you walk in the front door, there is only about 5 square feet of floor open for you to stand on.

Don himself is a character and an antique.

There's also ebay.

Cheers, Dean

Thank you Chevgene and all who have looked in and made suggestions.

I did go back and remove one shim to see if the rod would be loose but it tightened up on the journal and could not be moved.

I checked the trough and it holds oil....no leak. Using Mike Buller's tools, the only squirters that did NOT need to be adjusted were #1 (which has the bad babbitt) and #6 which is perfect.

Nothing is blue or black from lack of oil, just the babbitt appears smeared but only one half of the surface on both the cap and con rod.

Would replacing just the one connecting rod that is a babbitt type to an insert type have an effect on the balance of the rotating assembly ??

I posted earlier that Kanter lists a single con rod babbitt reconditioning. The price is $82 (your rod) and a month turn around time, has anyone used their service ??

I started my research last night and found a company in Texas but got no reply to my e-mail as of yet. I also found a gentleman in Connecticut.

Shawn Aldrich owns Aldrich Repair and Rebuild. I read all aspects of his site and felt comfortable with sending him an e-mail. He answered it this morning and I was sort of sticker shocked by his reply. I will say that he is very up front on his site about the different types of babbitt used by most rebuilders and what he uses and I believe he does quality work.........he quoted me $200 to recondition my rod and it would be a months turn around time.

Has anyone used his service ??

Tonight I'll check into Chev of the 40's and the Filling Station. Maybe I'd be better off replacing all the connecting rods with insert type.

I and several other VCCA members have used Paul's Rod & Bearing 6212 NW Bell Rd Parkville, MO 64152 (816) 587-4747. Have been satisfied with the work and also price.

Installing one insert rod will not throw off the balancer any more than it was. Chevrolets idea of balancing an engine in 1937 was selecting 6 connecting rods and pistons of (almost) the same weight. Once one of the original rods or pistons was replaced the balance was lost. If you bought a set of six pistons from chevrolet the six in the box were of equal weight. If one was purchased froma box of six (thats how they came) that one could be an ounce or tw lighter or heavier than the originals. When I replaced the rods in my '34 and '39 I had a pile of new rods to choose from. I selected the six of the same weight using a postal scale.

I sent an e-mail to Paul's Rod and Bearing and have made arrangements to mail him my rod.

Woud anyone know where i might find nos rod bolts ??

Thank you all for your input.

Dave,

I have some connecting rod bolts but I think they may be the wrong ones. The only ones I could find by a quick search (I have some of my stuff sorted but not these bolts) were as follows:

Group No. 0.623
Part No. 839102

This number does not come up in my parts book. Neither does it appear to be a number change. They may be for a Pontiac or something else GM. Six to a box.

They are NOS and in an unsealed GM box.

If someone else has better information, may be they will ID them. If it turns out they are the right ones, you can have them for paying postage only.

In the meantime I'll look again Monday morning. It is as hot as a firecracker out there in the garage today.

If it comes to it I can take out a couple from some used piston and rods sets I have. I think I still got some.

Good luck,
Charlie

Hello Charlie,

I checked the "Old Car Manual" site and there is an overlapping set of numbers.

This is what I've found in the manual under 0.623...........

'36-'39 838283...nut / castle type....requires a cotter pin

'37-'39 838830...bolt / requires castle nut and cotter pin

'39-'41 839102...bolt

'39-41 839103...nut

'39-'41 107828...Jam nut

My engine currently has a mix/match of these bolts and nuts but no cotter pins or jam nuts. I bought jam nuts from Mike Buller when I rented his tools to check the dipper/trough heights and nozzle positions.

The bolts you have will work. Please let me know what the cost of postage is.

I am sending you a PM.

OK, PM me your address. Don't worry about the postage until after you get the package.

Charlie