VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER Chevrolet Speedsters My own effort

I almost don't want to admit what I am doing, with this crowd. You guys are skilled, experienced, artisans.

My own hobby has been doodlebugs, but I want something that I can actually put on the road.

I have a 28 Chev that looks like it might be a candidate for some sort of a low budget speedster.

Currently the frame, engine/trans, front axle, steering and tin from the cowl forward, is all Chev. The rearend and suspension is '22 Overland. I like the design of the Overland suspension system in the back.

I think it is mostly ready for a test fire, but has been sitting for so long it has nearly no compression. It will backfire, but just won't start. My hope is if I can get it started, the hammering around may loosen things up to where it will have some compression and I can tell more about the condition without tearing it down.

I've read about the process of rebuilding one of those engines and am reluctant to take it on.

What does it take to do a low budget rebuild on a '28 Chev engine? My understanding is the block must be line-bored, if the mains are loose. Is that true? Can replacement bearings be found for the crank and rods?

I live near Seattle, so I doubt this ride will ever see more than 1000 miles, so don't want to invest a lot, but I do want it to be dependable... In other words, I want it all and I want it cheap! I don't work for the government, so the money I spend is all my own!

What do you think?

I'll try to get together some pictures of this fine old ride.

Ed......

Does the compression increase when you pour a little oil in the cylinders? Are all cylinders the same? Or do one or more have significantly more compression? You can do a crude test by removing the spark plugs and holding your thumb over the spark plug hole while turning over the engine with the starter. Do each of the rocker arms have a gap when the valves are completely closed? If you position each cylinder into the firing position (piston all the way up and both valves closed) and then blow air into the spark plug hole do you hear are escaping through the intake or exhaust? Those tests will help determine if there are piston ring or valve problems.

The backfire suggests that the timing may be 180 deg. off. You can determine that by removing the spark plug, probing the cylinder with a screw driver, rotating until the piston is at the top and both valves are closed. Remove the distributor cap and note if the rotor is pointed to that cylinder plug wire or the opposite one.

Lots of great information. Thanks. I'll be getting greasy tonite!

So, the question is "how many ways are there to flaunt - 'BEGINNER'"...

Thanks for the checklist. I got to spend some time on it last night... Seems to have a little more compression that I thought, still not lots, but... I did each of the tests that you suggested and I think it is still the rings that are not fitting well, however, I also discovered that the sparks were flying, when the valves were open... Got back to basics and figured out the wires were in the wrong holes in the distributor, firing at like 90 off. About that time I got that squared away, I had to quit.

I suppose if it fires at the right time, it will be more likely to start, but still have questions about the process of rebuilding vs just putting in new rings n valve job.

Something I read said to rebuild one of these, you have to get the replacement bearings then line bore. Is that true? I was talking to an old (88) friend and he thought I was crazy when I said that...

Ed........

OK - so I moved the spark plug wires and have checked to make certain each of them is going to the right place.

The carb is the result of melding 3 parts units together, so it a little less than a known commodity. I had removed the cap from a vaccum tap (I think) that is directly above the carb, on the intake manifold. I used that to prime it with copious amounts of fuel and VIOLA! She fired and ran for 20-30 seconds. First time in years, probably lots of years.

Yeah! I know, lots of you fellows have done this, but this my first time. Pretty exciting.

Now to work on the carb....

The original carb, RAKX-0, had had fuel in the bowl for so long the stem of the carb, that the bolt at the bottom of the bowl screws into.. It had rotted away. Over a couple of years, I found 3 carbs that looked similar, so I took the collection to a friend. He reworked the lot, made one that is now on the car.

Once I learned that the engine wants lots of fuel to get started, it starts and runs pretty well. I know - cartwheels were in order at that point! I restrained myself, but not before a yell or two escaped.

So, now it is only the radiator, remounting the cowl, about 1 1/8" forward, so the hood will fit, finish the wiring, change the oil...

Oh, yeah... Does anyone have an idea about how to free up the clutch? The peddle seems to operate, but the clutch remains engaged.

I know. Chain it to a stump and let it run, in gear. Sooner or later something will break. This rig has a 22 Overland rear-end, with original wood spoke wheels. Kinda leary of that solution to the clutch problem. Any other thoughts?

Also, about that oil filter. It is true that those only have some kind of rags in them? The only replacements that I can find are $80. This isn't that kind of a rebuild. Pretty tight budget to live within.

Ed......

I've made a little progress on my project. Got the radiator mostly water tight, the cowl moved forward, have selected that fuel tank to use and cleaned and painted it, and done most of the wiring.

I was really impressed when I got the engine running. There was no cloud of smoke, no bits falling or flying off the engine, aside from my own reaction, it was pretty subdued. Even now, no smoke. I know - yes I checked the oil. That was my first thought - an engine this old and no smoke - must be there is no oil, right?!!

I got the gauges connected, the generator generates, the oil pressure is 13-15... Life is good.

I have chosen a narrow fuel tank. It is tapered to fit a styled tractor, probably an old Massey. It has a profile that I like and will still allow the rear bits, suspension and mechanical brakes, to show.

The rig is a 28 Chev, first year for 4-wheel brakes. I have also pressed into service the rear-end and suspension of a 22 Overland. It has a pretty unique suspension that I particularly want to leave exposed. This tank accomplishes that.

I suspect I am going to have to pull the engine in order to gain access to the clutch. I may have mentioned this rig has not operated in many years. When I did get the engine running, I learned I cannot put it in gear due to the gears grinding. Makes me think the clutch is not releasing. However, when I have it on blocks and put it in High gear, then start it, the rear wheels spin some but slowly reduce speed to nothing...

When Looking at a spare set of parts, trying to figure out what would explain those actions, I'm still drawing a blank. If the trans grinds with the clutch in, implies the clutch is not releasing. But if the wheels stop turning, in high gear, with the clutch out, then the clutch is not transfering rotation from the engine to the transmission... I think I need to do that test again. Check that the clutch is tight, if in gear and running, try turning the wheels, anything to pick up more information about what it is or is not doing... There's more to learn...

More later....

Sounds like you are making great progress. Exciting!

The clutch in my '28 would not disengage after sitting for 40 years. I ultimately put the frame on jack stands, thus allowing the rear axle to hang low enough to uncouple the u-joint and drop the tranny (I didn't pull the engine).

My problem was rust on the tranny input splines, thus not allowing the clutch to move away from the flywheel. After cleaning the splines and gently sanding the flywheel and clutch pressure plates, put it back together and clutch worked just fine.

FYI, while the clutch was out, I replaced the throw out bearing with a newer type bearing, which I think should be better than the old graphite bearing.

Can you post some pictures of your project?

Cheers, Dean

Thanks for the thoughts, Dean.

Still don't have the driveline repaired and haven't done anything about the clutch. I will give that a shot, hopefully this week.

Did get the floor boards fab'ed and prep'ed, this weekend. Brought home lens and rims for the cowl lights.... Blew that. They look good, but don't fit.

I'll try to get some pictures of this machine.

Ed........

Odd problem with your driveline situation. Keep us up to date on your findings.

Mike

I was able to use Deans suggestion and drop the rear end, and get to the clutch parts from that end. Even though I'm using an Overland rearend and suspension, the logic worked great. Thanks, Dean.

Pulled the trans, and all looks pretty good in there. Coaxed the clutch from its death grip on the flywheel. Lightened it's load by about 5 pounds of crud, dirt and debris, then took to a neighbors shop and used his sand blaster... Looks new now!

The 'fingers' that work with the springs to operate the clutch, seem pretty tight, like I have to use a lever (aka Screw Driver) to operate. I'm using some lube to try to loosen them up. The pins that they pivot on, must be press fit. They sure don't want to give up their grip. Left them with some penetrating oil overnight. Hope they are looser this evening.

Got a surprise when I checked the cost of the new throw-out bearing. Wasn't expecting that... Gotta call Gary after while and get that delivery started. The clutch plate still looks servicable, so will be reassembling when the 'fingers' loosen up and the bearing arrives.

Still not seeing the issue with the driveline, though. Thought I would find something broken, but really... It all looks pretty good, for its age. No teeth missing, no recognizable damage in the clutch. Still, rotation doesn't go all the way to the wheels. At this point, seems it has to be between the engine and clutch (not much there to fail), or from the u-joint to the rear wheels.

Maybe I'll open the rear-end (Overland) to see what is to be seen there, then the last thing is the length of the drive-line. We did shorten it, but sure thought we measured a couple of times, before cutting....

I'll have to wait till I can reassemble, to test that out....

So, progress of sorts. More when the fingers limber-up, then that issue will be off the proverbial table.

More later. Thanks for the suggestions. I really appreciate them.

Ed........

OK, so here's a question....

Actually, here's the problem. I have the rig on jack stands, in gear, started and running, but the rear wheels don't turn. Tells me there is a disconnect in the driveline, somewhere.

I've had this drive line apart a couple of times, now, with the same results.

The drive shaft inside of the torque tube is sound, and long enough. Since this is its 'inaugural' operation, in many, many years, and we did move from a Ruckstal truck 2-sp rear-end to a '22 Overland rear-end, this was my first thought, but it appears to be sound.
Gears inside of rear-end appear sound and dependable.
Trans looks clean, no broken teeth, gears move easily and as expected, everything looks happy.
That gets me to the clutch, the only variable.
I replaced the throw-out bearing with a new one. The clutch pressure plate appears sound. When I put it on a bench, it takes most of my weight to compress it. That indicates to me that it will hold the HP of this old chevy engine. That leaves the disk itself. It appears to be sound and serviceable. The wear has not gotten to the rivets, yet. NOTE - Even after running the engine with the trans in gear, there are no marks on the clutch to indicate slippage. Should there be?

One further comment about the clutch. When I remove the trans, the throw-out bearing is protruding about 1/2 inch, from the back side of the bearing, closest to the engine to the back of the pressure plate, meaning that is the most movement that can be made via the clutch peddle. Is that what I should expect? This is a '28 Chevy and I have no idea what 'normal' is.

In the state that I thrive in, NOVICEHOOD, the only other variable is the linkage and adjustment between the peddle and the throw-out bearing.

So, if all of the mechanicals are sound, it only leaves adjustment. At the base of the clutch peddle, I can adjust the linkage. I have adjusted it up as far as it will go, with no apparent change. So, I moved the adjustment in the opposite direction, about a 1/3 of the way, down the adjustment bolt, with no noticable change. In both positions, with the trans in gear (engine off) I can readily rotate the rear wheels, both in the same direction.

I keep thinking I need to replace something, but it all appears (to me) to be working, appropriately. That leaves adjustment, but ...

If a clutch plate is worn, should the adjustment nut be as close to the peddle as possible, or should it be at the far end of the adjustment?

When I think about it, it acts like the adjustment is not allowing the pressure place to apply enough pressure to drive power from the engine to the transmission. Still implies adjustment, rather than throwing new parts at it.

It's like everything works, but all together, doesn't...

I'm sure there are fellows here who know more about what I'm talking about than I do. What do you think?

Ed.....

Do you have any freeplay in the clutch pedal? By that I mean very little resistance until you push the clutch pedal part way toward the floor, then gets harder to push? If not then you have the clutch disc NOT pressed between flywheel and pressure plate.

Some things seem so easy, when you see the light. I was just speaking with someone else, who helps lots. This was another question that I should have recognized.

I think part of the problem is I've never operated this in the past.. And I'm a novice. Didn't know what to expect... Now, as you picked up on, I recognize there was no free-play because the adjustment was off.

Thanks. I appreciate the help.

Ed......

Well that job got a lot less difficult, when I learned how to do it right!

Someone asked if I was using the bolts to pull the transmission tight against the flywheel. Well Duh! Sure I was. And that was using the clutch linkage to depress the clutch, without using the peddle.

It's real obvious when I thought about it...

So, I adjusted the linkage, as if I knew what I was doing, installed the transmission so it slides up against the flywheel without the bolts, and the clutch peddle works, the U-joint turns with the engine, until I put it in neutral... Looking better all the time.

Only thing is, while I had it apart, I recognized there was no pilot bearing. I put it together to test and all looks good. A bearing is on its way, so reassembly will start next Monday.

PROGRESS!

Thanks for the patience.

Ed....

Keep at it, Ed. With each pass at a problem, a new 'perspective' rears its head and you can observe something new.

Cheers, Dean

I was so tempted....

Got it running, on jack stands and the rear wheels seemed to do as I expected... I couldn't wait to get it off the stands.

I temporarily mounted the cowl, then the floor, then the seat base, then the seats, used magnets to hold the fuel tank in place....

I was able to move the machine forward and back in the driveway. It was all I could do to keep from chasing up the road to show off... Then I recognized how embarrassing it is when a ride doesn't make it back home. I have opted to get a little more familiar with it, before I chase around the neighborhood.

So, later this week, it will be a muffler, wiring, lites, etc. In a word, WOOHOO! Working on this has been like pushing a chain uphill, but I think I'm nearly there...

Thanks for all of the help, everyone.

Major congrats!

Keep it simple and and keep it (and you) safe.

Dean

So, here's the next question....

Sound/noise...

Remember - this is a 1928 Chevy 4 cylinder. I want it to sound mellow, not loud.. Something the neighbors won't object to.

Normally I would got to NAPA and look at 2" mufflers. Are there other considerations? As I recall, fro the old days, a Cherry Bomb makes more noise.

Does the length of the muffler make the difference? Suggestions?


Thanks, again, fellows

You might try just a straight pipe. The two inch down to 1 1/2" tail pipe might just give the sound you want. Otherwise a tractor muffler is another possibility.

I have heard the farther back you put the muffler toe more mellow it will sound.

I've never heard of reducing the size of the exhaust. Is that really something that is practical? Understand, I intend to try to keep up with other speedsters. I understand they do the speed limit. That's one of my concerns, if this will run fast enough to keep up. I understand it's a 85 year old engine/trans so may need all it's got to go half the speed limit.

Ed...

That's an idea... Never heard of that. Of course having a shortened wheel base, doesn't leave a lot of spare room... I also have a neighbor that has a pile of aluminum pipes from an old organ... Hmmmm

Thanks for the idea

Reducing the size of the tail pipe is only practical when the exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe are oversized for the flow of the engine. The stock exhaust pipe is 2" and tail pipe is 1 1/2" so you are basically only eliminating the muffler which is a much wider pipe with a baffle or two.

I DONT KNOW ABOUT KEEPING UP WITH OTHER SPEEDSTERS THERE IS ONE IN YOUR AREA THAT WILL RUN SOME WHERE CLOSE TO 90 MPH I COULD NOT DO IT HOPE THIS HELPS