VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 starting my 53 235 engine

I've been trying to get my 53 3100 pickup engine running. Started with fuel tank, new fuel and vac adv. lines, fuel pump, rebuilt carb, Used ball on flywheel/screwdriver in #1 Cylinder spark plug hole to find TDC. Also to see rotor point to where #1 wire connects to cap to get wires right. New plugs & wires, cap & rotor, new 6 volt battery etc. Cranks well but I noticed when I pour a little gas in the carb, it seems to turn a little harder for a few seconds, then back to normal. But won't fire up. Any suggestions? Thanks, Chris

"Seems to turn a litle harder for a few seconds" if harder means slower it may have too much gas in the cylinders and is tending to lock-up....or the timing may be advanced a little far and firing against its self.
Remove the plugs and let the gas evaporate or retard the timing a hair.
Is the fuel pump actually pumping gas? Is there spark at the plugs?

You did not say if the valves are closed there is a good chance that it is timed 180 degrees out of time, all the rest you did is correct.
Al

If the timing is 1/2 off it will usually back-fire through the carb.

Here is a posting I did a couple weeks ago, it will work for a 235 also. (truck engine should have mechanical valve lifters)

Proper process for timing and starting 216 engine

1.) number one cylinder is TDC and both valves are fully closed, timing mark on flywheel is at TDC (flywheel is properly installed)

2.) distributor is fully inserted into the oil pump and gear is meshed with camshaft. (camshaft is properly installed and timed to crankshaft)
3.) the rotor is pointing to #1 sparkplug terminal. Connect a timing light to #1 sparkplug wire and a 12 volt battery start the engine....and adjust the timing.

Harder does mean slower in my case. Fuel pump is pumping gas.I have an in line glass fuel filter right before carb so I saw it filling up. Haven't checked spark at spark plugs because I've been alone trying this. I'll get a buddy to step on starter pedal for me to check for spark. Thank you for the help.

Al, so if I remove the valve cover, at TDC, I should see both intake and exhaust valves are down, directly above #1 cylinder at the same time? May be a rookie question but they are right next to each other right?

You can check the spark by manually operating the points when the end of wire from the coil to distributor is 1/2" from a ground on the engine. If the points are closed just open and close with your finger or piece of wood or plastic. If open you can short across with a screwdriver. You should get a spark that makes an audible "SNAP". That does not guarantee spark at the plugs as it does not test the distributor cap, rotor and plug wires. Since those parts are not often bad it is a good indicator that you would have spark at the plugs.

Both valves are side by side and when at top dead center will be closed and the rocker arms will be loose, [no tension]
Al

So white dot was visible thru flywheel. 1st 2 valves- rocker arms had no tension. rotor was in between 2 spark plug wire connectors on dist. cap so not exactly sure which one is #1. so tried rotating wires one position over all the way around top of cap. Didn't fire.
Also tried this, dist. cap off but key turned on, opened points with wood dowel,stuck screwdriver between that gap I created,.. no spark. Was that the right way as described earlier, to check for a spark? I might take a while to understand you guys, but I will never stop trying! :)

I think you have several problems. With the No. 1 piston at top dead center the rotor should point to the location of the No. 1 spark plug wire. If pointed between two wires then there will be no spark to any plug.

Now you need to determine if the white dot is in the right position (flywheel properly installed and the dot is in the right position on the flywheel). You can put a wire into No. 1 spark plug hole, pointed down to determine the piston position. It should be at max upward position @ TDC. Then the timing mark should line up.

Once the No. 1 piston is TDC (and both rockers loose) the rotor should be pointed at the No. 1 spark plug wire position on the distributor cap and the points just beginning to open. That will get you close enough for the engine to run.

Finally you need to get a spark from the end of the coil wire when the points are either manually opened and closed or shorted across. Not spark, no run. First check to see if you have voltage to the coil. You can quickly swipe the wire to the positive coil post to a ground to see if you get a small spark. If no spark, the ignition switch is suspect. Spark then try the same with the wire that goes to the distributor. You should get a spark there too if the coil is okay. If that is all okay then open and close the points or short across points and see if you get a small spark. If so you should also get a "Snappy" spark when you hold the coil wire near a ground and operate or short across the points. If no spark make sure that the condenser is attached either to the negative post on the coil or terminal from coil to distributor body. Also make sure that the outside case of the condenser is grounded. If it is not grounded you will only get a weak spark at best.

Let us know what happens when you try the above.

I think all advice has been good.

The only thing I would do, other than already suggested and after everything is checked out, is to leave the distributor loose. Hold down bolt in but loose enough that you can turn the distributor a few degrees of travel. As your friend is cranking it over for starting, rotate it back and forth in small increments until it cranks. It's hard to get the spark "right on" in a static setup.

If you have sufficient compression, spark and proper gas mixture all at he same time, then something has to "explode" (ignite). Every engine will run if you have those elements in place, that is, all but the one on my lawn mower.

Good luck with it.
Charlie

I assume (I know never assume) you mean to do these tests while someone else is stepping on starter cranking engine over. Go ahead and laugh, but I tried this alone with key to on only, and nothing.

So do I need to be cranking engine?

Thanks, Chris

No you don't need anyone else to check the distributor, points, coil and condenser. Turn on the ignition switch and if you don't have power to positive lead to coil, trace back to switch and eventually battery. Once you have power to coil then you can check other wires, points etc.

Dumb question..........Is your battery hooked up or maybe dead?

brand new 6 volt

Thanks Chipper! I'll try this as soon as I can.

___________________
Confused Chris

So I bought a 6 volt test light. Turned key on, clamped alligator clip from test light onto frame and touched test light needle to + side of coil and it lit up. This tells me coil is "getting" power. Correct? Then held coil wire, still connected to coil, 1/2
" away from frame. No spark. Even when I touched it to frame. I also had had a 1/4" wood dowel holding points open at this time. Also tried with coil wire 1/2" away, putting flathead screwdriver between points, to make a spark jump across points. No spark. Hopefully I did this as instructed. If so, I think coil is getting power but it's not coming out of it. I clipped alligator clip on neg. side of coil and touched light needle to pos. cable to starter and no light. So could my diagnosis be correct?

Thanks, Chris

If the points are open then you should have 6 volts at both positive and negative post of coil. You will have much less at negative post if points are closed. If no or low voltage at negative post check to be sure that the line from coil to points is not grounded. You should get a small spark at the points when shorted across with screwdriver. It will be there but much harder to see if the points are opened and closed. If you have spark at the points and no spark first make sure that the condenser case is grounded. Else you will only have a very weak spark at the coil wire. Also make sure that the coil wire does not have any breaks and the contact ends are good.

So I installed a new coil, points, and condenser. It back-fired through the carb today! It never did that before. Which is good to me because at least I know it's firing now. The points had a hole thru it so that might have been my firing problem.
Now it sounds like "timing is 1/2 off." Like you said. What exactly does that mean? 180 degrees off? No. 1 rocker arms were loose slightly when I thought I had TDC. I don't know. Getting closer though. Thanks for any further coaching.

Chris

Chris,
Remove the spark plug from # 1 and hold your thumb over the hole, when it gets blown off that is near TDC. Once that happens then stop turning over the engine and check the rotor position. If pointed near # 1 you should be okay. If near # 6 then you are 180 degrees off. The 180 degrees refers to 1/2 way around the circle (distributor). It is the opposite side from where the rotor should point.

I believe the #1 plug wire should be at the 4 o'clock position to be correct. It will work any place you put the #1 plug wire in conjunction with the rotor as long as you then use the correct sequence, but to be correct, you need to get #1 cylinder up to TDC on compression and pull the distributor and turn the rotor to the 4 o'clock position. If it won't line up because of the oil pump being off a bit, use a large screwdriver and turn the pump to where it lines up. Redo your plug cables if #1 isn't where it belongs.

Well, tried finger over the hole bit. Rotor wasn't near 4 o clock. Was more like 10 o clock. So moved plug wires around based on 4 o clock positioning and got better results but no start. Better results meaning it tried to fire and smelled a tiny bit of exhaust but I noticed fuel was leaking out of #6 exhaust area and down side of engine. Not constantly but like it was flooded or something. Haven't been stepping on gas pedal when cranking either. Also noticed fuel dripping out of upper rear of carb where a spring is wound around a idle control arm or something. My late father-in-law and I rebuilt this rochester carb last summer. Without him around now I turn to you guys a lot as you might have noticed. This carb leak happens only a few seconds or so after I begin cranking. Anyway, I'm going to keep trying. Recharging battery now as it was tired of me:) Thanks to all of you who have been guiding me so far. I won't give up.

Chris

Chris here. Any ideas what might be going on as stated in my previous post with my fuel leak thru manifold? Or any other suggestions? Thanks.

Chris

I expect you will find that the power valve in the carburetor is leaking. If so it will drop raw gas into the intake manifold.