VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Electrical - 6 volt Same old hard start - '34 Master

This topic has been discussed at lenght, 6V and a tight engine. I had an old friend go over everything to make sure the battery, the timing and the valves are adjusted properly so we are working with no unknowns. It starts on the 6V when cold and runs nice and smooth.By the way, the stumbling or hesitation seemed to be warmup related.It won't start again when hot.It does start almost instantly with 12V. Short of installing welding cables on the battery, I suppose wearing in is the only solution. How many hours of idling does that require?

If you installed aluminum pistons with cast iron tolerance expect to have hot start problems for first 1000-1500 miles. It takes a while to wear the pistons enough so they don't hang up when hot. Of course it depends on who made the pistons and if they have steel inserts or reduced expansion alloy.

Pat, mine did the same thing until It was broken In. Be sure not to run It at a constant speed. Vary the engine speed and load.
Richard

I got aluminum pistons from Mr. Schneider. I don't remember seeing steel inserts, perhaps Gene can confirm.

They did not have the steel struts.
Idling the engine would take months for things to loosen up. It will take a few hundred miles of actual driving to do the job. This is common because the starters have marginal power on those cars.

Are there any other 6V starters , let's say from the 50's that would fit a 207? I suppose you get those few hundred miles by always coming home of stopping for at least 3 hours when you do. I can see this car fast becoming a static display item

When they were new, did they have that hot start problem too?

Pat, Mine was tight after a recent rebuild too. The 800 miles I put on it going to Flint, and a new 00 battery cable fixed everything. Good to see that you've got the crank out... is it harder to crank by hand when it's hot, or is it all electrical? The problem may be magnified by the wrong battery cables.

Pat,
I don't remember having a long term problem with hot starting when I overhauled my '33 207. It will probably take more than just idling to break it in. Make sure your starter is in top notch shape and as mentioned before that the cables are big enough and the connections are good, especially the ground. If it is only grounded to the frame try going to the transmission or even right to the starter.

Hey Unk,

I just put 00 cables on. There is a second ground strap between the motor and the frame. My friend is bringing another battery. He says sometimes they show voltage and good acid s.g. but they don't deliver. Next is to find a confirmed good starter to try.

Sounds good Pat. My starter (years ago) snapped the armature shaft. I found a NOS armature and man, what a difference that made. She spins like she was on 12 volt.

Something just came to mind in the middle of the night. I have installed a battery disconnect switch. Would I need to repolarize the generator everytime I reconnect the battery?

i don`t know about a 34 but i have a battery disconnect on my 30 and i dont have to do that

No.

What kind of battery disconnect switch do you have? Some if them can cause hard starting when cold, they are not beefy enough for the load and cause high resistance. The ones that go on the battery post with the knob that you turn to disconnect are the most troublesome.

i got mine from a speed shop the kind they have to put on the rear of a race car. forgot the cost. if i remember i think its good for 140amps.
my 30 cranks and started the same with or without it. i mounted it right by the battery. i just reach in and feel it to turn it on and off. you cant see it when i open my hood at car shows.

That is what I have. On the battery post with a knob.

Pat, take your battery disconnect off and try it without. I took it off my car and it helped a bunch.

I'll try that. the reason I was asking about the polarization is that it appears the battery drains quite fast, so I was thinking maybe there's something wrong with the charging system. However I think it is normal to show a very slight charge at idle isn't it?

Have you re-checked the valve tolerance when hot?
It took about 1000 miles of normal driving at various speeds to loosen up my engine.

I'd still like to buy another starter to elimimate that as a problem. I went through that with a Packard years ago, we had gone through all the hoops and it turned out to be the starter. Anything that will fit is fine by me. If it doesn't have the switch to use the starterator I can always rig up a solenoid and pus button.

Actually, I never do...Mostly because I never think to do it... Never has made any difference with me/mine...

Adjusting the valves has nothing to do with the starter not spinning over the engine. It is the the ring drag on the cylinder walls as well as high spots on the bearings.
Does it turn-over OK when cold?
Also rmember it takes a few hundred miles of driving to loosen up an engine.

Yes it turns over cold, but if it stalls or when you shut it down after it has idled for a while it won't start again. I started it today with the 12V and went for a 3 mile ride.(Its first drive longer than 20 feet in 62 years). I took the battery with me just in case. I think that's how it'll be until I can try another starter to be sure. It drove OK, the ride is amazingly smooth. I got some kind of vibration in the area of the u-joint which went away when letting up on the gas. It came back a couple of times though. It also seems like it powers out at 35 mph. I'll keep going for rides and list all the things it does and hopefully it'll get sorted out.

Pat, It's great you got to take it for a drive after all of your hard work! You will get the hard start when hot figured out. Trying a different starter makes sense to me and like said before, it does take some time to loosen them up. Have fun, you will figure it out!
PS It should have plenty of power at 35, just keep tuning on it and driving it.

The more you drive it the better it will get...Don't sweat it...