VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 the rules

sorry guys,
i'm new and don't know all the rules about postings yet, so please have patience with me. any help or no no's will help me in conversations.

on the 1940 coupe.

changed the oil or sludge that came out of motor today. how many oil changes should i do per year? i noticed there was no oil filter on motor. is that normal?

will pull the brakes this week end. any thing special i should be aware of?

the saga still continues
bubbatom

Oil filters didn't become standard equipment until decades later. I use a bypass filter and change my oil once a year, in the fall. Factory spec on my '38 was to change oil every 2000-3000 miles. "Changing Crankcase Oil' bottom right of the page continuing on to the next page.

If the oil that came out of it was sludge, it might be a good idea to run it for a short time and change it a again to get some more of the sludge out of it.

I second Uncle Ed's suggestion. Also if it gets dark on the stick, change it.

If it was mine I would drop the pan and clean the oil pump screen and make sure all the oil trough oiling pipes are squirting.

Bubbatom,

You may want to ignore Uncle Ed and Old 216. In the case of Uncle Ed he's probably thinking of one of hie corn gathering machines. (He may have gotten to squeezing some of that corn. Whatever.) I don't know why Old 216 jumped on the bandwagon there. Maybe same reason.

Listen to me. That car had been a-sitting up for some time. When you cranked it up it lostened up some old dry oil and caused some sludge to appear when you changed the oil. No matter how many times you change it you're not going to clear up the sludge that will appear when you change the oil now. Just run the oil you put in upon the instant change.

Change it every six (6) months or every 3K miles whichever comes first? I would actually extend that six month deal to three years. Brand new, clean oil is too expensive to waste on an old 216. Is too! Most important thing is to keep it full of 10w-30. Brand new, clean oil is too expensive to waste on an old 216. Is too!

As to darkness of the oil, todays oils will collect all kinds of stuff and go dark real soon. Don't worry about the darkness. It just means the oil is doing its job.

Good luck with the 1940. Get some "shark teeth" rims for it. They're so great looking that us 41ers run them too!

Although there is some slight wisdom in my thoughts on the matter, Uncle Ed and Old 216 (including Tiny) are probably more right than I. Your call.

Best,
Charlie

Hey Bubbatom....I`ll agree with Chevgene....I purchased a 40 Chevy last summer and the PO had changed the oil every year for the 36 years he owned it and it was super clean when I bought it from him. Long story short.. because of plugged oil passages to the timing gears , I needed to drop the oil pan to do the job. I was amazed to find 3/4 inch of sludge in the pan. The clean oil just seemed to run over all the sludge. The other critical area I found was the rocker arm shaft and parts that were almost totally gummed up with char and hard sludge. So ....good luck and have FUN!!!! Martinomon

Bubbatom, I second the response of Chev Nut. There is a reason he has 16,111 postings on our chat site. The picture says it all. Nine times out of ten yours needs cleaning, but hopefully it is not this bad. The engine pictured has a coat of grime over everything in the block and the compression is so bad that you can move the crank with only your hands to turn the harmonic balancer. Good luck, Mike

P.S. There are posts with the chat post heading "216 Oil Pan Gauge Settings 1937-53," that will give you a good idea about cleaning and aiming your oil nozzles in the oil pan. Just look below your post heading to the date Yesterday at 12:34 PM

I don't recall ever seeing one quite that bad other than a 1930 Dodge that I got in 1960 that had been setting in a grove for several years. Do you think that is the result of using non detergent oil. If it had detergent oil and was changed regularly, I wouldn't think it would get that bad. I realize you said the engine was extremely worn so it probably had a lot of blow by the rings. Oh, just remembered a 1936 Chevy Standard that came out of a junkyard that might have been that bad. LOL

I think the engine in the above picture is an unmolested engine that probably was poorly maintained. When I checked the oil pan nozzles 2 where not functioning, and by the time I had cleaned out the pan I had created a 1/4 inch rust hole in it. When removing the head I could not use my impact wrench on the bolts (old 600 pound impact wrench). I had to use a 3 foot pipe over my 1/2" socket wrench. Each bolt pinged when it came loose, I had never had that happen before. I did get the harmonic balancer off with the impact wrench.

I had a cracked bearing cap that the rebuilders wanted to replace as they rebuilt my 41 engine, and pulled it off this engine, and eventually I will part the engine out. It is a 47 engine and I am wondering if I should have the block hot tanked and magnafluxed, to check for cracks, or just send it to the scrap yard.

I found the engine attached to it's cut off front frame in a hot rodder's back yard. I paid way to much for it but I figured someone would need the parts and it did keep me busy cleaning up everything for a month.

I think the oil pan is an area we over look for servicing. I have had my pan off about 6 times in the 10 years I have had the car and am amazed that it still is collecting crud in the oil pump screen, and the bottom of the pan by the plug still contains a thick residue that sticks together. I think all of us should be pulling off our oil pans and checking them if we do not know the history of our engine or it hasn't been off in around 10 years. Good luck, Mike

P.S. Sure wish Bubbatom would not have used the "The rules" as the heading of this posting but instead 1940 216 oil changes. But with a little counseling I will get over it!!! I know Charlie will just tell me to "Man Up." Whatever that means!!!

don't throw good money at it . my vote . ( unless it is a very rare block ). frank

Sludge formation with even detergent type conventional oils is why I always use full synthetic engine oil. Of course on an older sludged up engine you need to "get in there" to clean it out since new oil will not clean it out. Some of these old engines will run pretty good right up until KA-CHUNK time. Sure it's more work than keeping a late model car on the road, but the rewards are pretty special.

I think the moving parts of that engine look a lot better than the sump. I am wondering if it is all due to sediment in the pan. Normally I would expect to find the darker oil based stains covering the crankshaft and rods.

I took the picture with a flash which washes out the true color. I have only removed one main bearing cap so don't know what is under the rods, or crank? Thanks, Mike

I think it looks pretty good...Except for the pump screen...Not unusual to have up to a 1/2 inch of sludge in the pan of a motor they never changed the oil in...Seen it many 'o times...

I haven't had the pleasure of seeing any sludge formation on engines even with detergent type oils unless the owner neglects to change it at regular intervals ...I personally only use synthetic oil to increase the mileage between oil changes...Like my Jaguar that requires about 8 quarts each time...

It was not too unusual to find a 1947 sludged as per picture when the car was only 4 years old. If the oil wasn't changed every 1000 miles or so and the car had a lot of short trip runs the sludge would build up in a hurry. Oils did have some detergent back then but wasn't enough to keep a poorly maintained engine clean..
When sludge is found on the bottom of the pan it often comes from the engine not being run for long periods of time and the carbon and sludge particles settling to the bottom of the pan. It used to be common to find a white paste in the bottom also. This was the lead from the leaded gas that got passed by the rings and the lead settled out of the oil. If you check the color of the oil on the dip stick on an engine that has not been started for a number of years the oil will usually look clean because the black particles have settled somewhat harmlessly to the botttom of the pan.
Conventional oils and synthetic oils have the same amount of detergent and additives and either one needs to be changed depending on temperature and driving conditions or sludge will form.

The number 1 cause of sludge is water. The water comes from two sources one combustion gas bypassing the rings and condensation from air being drawn into the crankcase as it cools. Add a little acid (catalyst) and sludge is the result. The second cause is excessive heat. It causes oil to combine into larger molecules (sludge). The solution is to make sure that you drive at least 10 (20 is better) miles every other trip. Changing oil frequently will remove some of the sludge, more if drained HOT.

thanks for the replies on the oil filter.

i did not mean to make a mistake in calling the post "the rules". i guess i should have said "precedures in posting".
remember, this is all new to me, so i am kind of in the dark on this site till i get used to it.

i'll back off and just read instead of asking questions til i get to feel comfortable about asking any questions.

bubbatom

i got to thinking about sending in for membership, but i am going to hold off until i see how things are handled by other people. i got disapointed when i joined another organization a few months ago.

i will still moniter this site for further information before joining.

no offence guys

bubbatom

BubbaTom,

All of us learn from the questions we ask and yours have been very good ones. My comments are merely directed at the headings you use for your posts, and as you scan our posts you can see you are not the only one that doesn't provide a clear heading about your topic. If this where Facebook and our purpose was to serve as a friendly communication device between members that would work out fine but it is more than that. Most of us are older retirees with mechanical experiences that maybe soon lost. Our legacy to this fine hobby is more than a few old well maintained cars, it is also posts on our site that explain for the next generation how to maintain our cars. We have a very unsophisticated index of all posts. It is indexed by the words in the heading and in the articles. So a clear heading is easier for others to find the information they need. A lot of us also do not have the time to read all articles or when we need information go page by page through the posts looking for information so we appreciate a heading that is telling us what the posts are about. As a new member we want you to help us build the best chat site for our old cars. I think we have responded well to your questions and you will find that we ignore no questions no matter what the heading is.

I for one have little mechanical background and am a retired high school librarian. While having some local car guy friends non of them are Chevy guys. Without this site I would have become to frustrated to participate in the hobby. I struggle understanding the manuals, and lack the intellect to even understand how basic engine processes sometimes work. But what I do know how to do is videotape how something comes apart. I also like taking things apart, enjoy cleaning things up, and trying to make them work better.

I'm sorry "I" have made you feel discouraged about using the site, that was never my intent and I apologize for it.

Next question please!!!

Thanks, Mike

Bubbatom, please don't be discouraged over trivia matters. You ARE welcome here. Ask away

Bubbatom, please feel welcome here. Posting titles and sections are more of "housekeeping" type issues and any slight confusion shouldn't keep any of us from asking questions. There might be lots of different answers at times, but these guys are always open to new ways of looking at things. As far as becoming a VCCA member,I think that's a very good idea. Great folks with lots of helpful knowledge, a really good VCCA monthly publication, tours, local clubs, and of course Old Chevy's. We're all here to find some new friends and enjoy life with an old car.
Thanks for posting your questions. Jim

try it for a year at least .and the magazine is great . frank