VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 steering gear -38 master deluxe

Hi Chevy people
I have an excessive amount of lost motion in the steering gear. Question: Is there a chance that this can be taken out with worm and rollershaft adjustments? the rollershaft is the easy one but the book says to do worm shaft first(not so easy) then rollershaft and finally adjust the steering gear backlash by turning the housing eccentric bolt. might i just try the easy one first? If these do not work it will have to be rebuilt? that looks to be a "send out to a shop job". Are there jobbers doing that? where is the failure most likely to occur?
thanks for any enlightenment
Steve

Steven,
If you need the parts I can supply them.
Chevyb

Try adjusting it your self-you have nothing to loose.If you get an adjustment too tight you will feel the bind in the steering wheel.

I know it isn't correct but I usually adjust the sector shaft first as thats where most of the play is (lock nut and screw)-count the turns and you can always bring it back to the original position.Just tighten in small increments.
The bushings where the shaft comes thru the housing may also be worn.While some one moves the wheel back and forth watch is the shaft is moving back and forth.At the same time check the ends of the drag link (and tie rod ends) for lost motion.The springs in the ends tend to break.Also check the gear for lubricant.In your warm climate a soft chassis grease may be OK -or mix a little rear end gear oil with it.

Thanks again Gene, you always have good advise. I did check pitman arm,the lost motion is in the gear box.I still dont have the wheels on, the cars is blocked up and is easy to check. i was hoping someone would say to try that easy route first. One good thing about it being loose, it turns real smooth so the bearings may be ok and are not currently overloaded. I'll give that a try next time over.
I made some new cork seals for the spindle so i am ready to put the brakeplates on. I have to install the master cyl. will do that before i get a lot of stuff in the way. seemed like a good time to look for the lost motion too.

spttvb
I strongly urge you to follow the book on this adjustment.
The worm gear shaft (steering wheel mount) is the basis for the adjustment. While everything else is slack you can accomplish this adjustment very accuratly and while off the ground. This will establish a good solid referance to make the second easier and final adjustment. Without the first adjustment the second one has no feel and therefore very dificult.
Hans

Im can not disagree with Hans - just have had good sucess with my simple way -guess because its like my mind.

Without a load on the wheels the gear and joint loosness may not be as easily detected.Also have wheels (steering gear) in the dead center -straight position when making adjustments.

Hi, i'm looking at that stering gear now. when the wheel is rocked back and forth (lost motion positions) the gear turns but arm does not move. when it does make contact the whole assembly is rotating a bit. the bolts were loose. the book talks about backlash adjustment here. just what are they calling backlash? Is that the lost motion?the side nut adjuster is up tight, however nothing seeems to move inside when it is backed off. ther was very little if any oil in it. i topped it up to soak hoping something would loosen up. i am really confused now with this backlash item. when i tightend one of the loose bolts it seemed like maybe some lost motion disappered. the service manual does not shed much light on this. i dont understand what turning the unit* does???? can i be enlightened on this by someone please. I never thought it was much good to work on something when one did not understand what the principal was.
* the eccentric bolt
all as far as i can tell by turning the wheel, all is nice a free.
The car is on blocks no wheels on it. i am just turning the spindles when i move the wheel. all the connections to the wheels appear to be good.(tie rods...) would putting weight on the car take up the slack?
thank you

Hi steven,

When adjusting the eccentric bolt you are actually adjusting the "mesh" of the two gears which in effect will reduce any lost motion between those two gears. This should be done in the 'straight ahead' position. After the adjustment, check the maximum turn right and left to insure it doesn't bind on a turn.

thanks ray, i wish the book had a better blow up of the steering gear. i have reread it several times now so i think i have a pretty fair idea of what to do. i can visualise everthing but that bolt! or rather how it can accomplish that task. i wil try that adjuster today and maybe if its not worn out will get some life out of that gear yet. maybe it has never been adjusted!

Steven - All turning the eccentric bolt does is move the sector gear into the worm gear eliminating the backlash caused by wear. Backlash is nothing more than what us farm boys used to call "play" in the steering. If you can watch the top of the gear box as you turn the bolt you can see the top move in or out. Both the sector and the worm gear wear more in the straight ahead position therefore adjust it just tight enough so that you have a slight drag as you turn from stop to stop. If you tighten it too tight in the straight ahead position you will quickly wipe out the rest of the worm gear. By the way my '40 has over 400,000 on it and I have only adjusted it once. Usually it is bushings and tie rod ends that cause the play.

Mike, my old man farmed with horses and he called it play too! Dont know where i got "lost motion" other than that is what it is, the backlash term had me fooled. I thank both you guys for setting me strait, i didnt get to it today, gave it a look tho. mine looks a little different than the book. the eccentric bolt has a little "lever" like on the back side of bolt. i am guessing i can turn that. the other side, closer to the engine, has the nut and lock nut as far as i can tell. i gashed my thumb open on a bubble pack of batterys for moms flashlite. the guy that came up with that type of packaging should be shot. didnt want to fill the cut up with grease yet. got to try that adjust soon, i am anxious now. bet it will work. as i wrote the bolts were loose so it probably bounced its way out of adjustment. the threads are messed up on the fill plug. is that pipe thread? (jam fit) or sae?

ANyone that may be interested: Adjustment done.
what i found may be of interest to some that havent done this yet like myself yesterday. The book talks about turning the eccentric sleeve and bolt. the sleve is offset drilled thus making it eccentric. the bolt has an offset head on the opposite side. i think this is just so the bolt can "follow " the eccentric. when the sleeve is turned with all the bolts loose it moves the worm gear casting assembly, you can see it move. the bolt seems to move the casting up and down a bit too. it would be easier to tell on bench. i had to move the eccentric full 180 degrees for maximum forward movement turning the bolt seemed to lower it and both of these motions i guess, as larry said, move the gear closer to the pitman shaft gear thus taking out the "play". while i got rid of most of the play i think probably it would be safe to say the gear is almost worn out. Not having had it apart i dont know if it can be rebuilt or not. i am going to drive it like it is for awhile, maybe come across a donar gear that can be rebuilt or needs not to be. the adjustment is simple when you understand it, i had to remove the eccentric sleeve to see just what was going on...

Great-experiance is still the best teacher - as well as a little experimentation