VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 1927 Landau Sedan - Brake Adjustment

Hi Everyone,

My Son and I are working on restoring a 1927 Chev Landau Sedan as a father / son project. The car is getting close to where we can get it on the road for the first time, and are now at the stage where we want to set-up the brakes. Currently the car barely stops. The emergency brake works better than the foot brake, but even when used together it will barely stop the car rolling down our moderately steep driveway.

We purchased the car off the daughter of an elderly gent who unfortunately passed away and as such, we have no history or knowledge of why certain things are the way they are on the car. My Son and I are handy but not "car guys" (yet) and although we could perhaps tinker with the brakes, we would greatly appreciate some expert assistance on this one, especially given the car only has rear brakes and as such they need to be set up correctly.

We have the manual but when I am looking at the brake adjustment it would appear that the "Brake Guide Pin and Lock Plate" may be missing. I am not sure if perhaps, some different brakes were put on the car, and therefore these pieces are not necessary for our application, or whether these pieces are necessary to set up the brakes... ?

Here is a link to some pictures so that you can view what I am trying to describe:

https://picasaweb.google.com/103109131679997921712/February172013

Any assistance on which parts we might need and how best to set up the brakes, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance !

Hi Chuck,

I have not come accross brakes different to those detailed in the manual being used, therefore any parts shown should be there.

The page of photos you have the link for is coming up as not being found.

Cheers

Ray

Hi Ray,

The link to the pictures should be working now, as I had neglected to make it "public". Thanks for the advice.

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

Got the pictures up now. With no locking pin at the rear, which also adjusts the clearance of the band to the drum in that area you are not making full contact between the band and drum when the brake is applied. Take a look at the manual where it describes the clearance of the band all around the drum. In my case and it works for me I use a hacksaw blade as a gauge for clearance.

Good Luck

Ray

Thanks very much Ray. Looks like we'll need to source some parts.

If anyone out there has these parts or knows where to source them, please feel free to send us a PM.

Chuck

Your photos are a bit blurred but in addition to missing the guide pin mechanism as Ray noted it appears that the wrong type of brake shoe has been used. The correct lining material is a woven mat construction often used for cranes. Its quite a bit more expensive than cast type material used for internal expanding brakes so some folks are tempted to buy thr wrong stuff. The woven material is softer and "grabs" the drum better. Maybe I'm wrong on what I saw but look at it closely.
Both the Filling Station 800-841-6622 and Gary Wallace 314-293-1991 have woven lining but Gary is more likely to have the guide pin mechanism.
The E-brakes use cast linings and often lose effectiveness due to leakage of gear lube from axle bearing seal failure. If you have'nt removed the drums to inspect the E brake linings you should. It can be quite a chore to get the drum/hub off. You need the right puller in most cases.
Again, if you havent done so check all the linkage clevis and pins. If badly worn alot of slop in the system makes it tough to get a good brake adjustment. And obviously if any of that stuff breaks --------!!!

Good luck with your 'new' car. The 4 cyl Chevs can be alot of fun (if the brakes are working right). Dan

Hi.
Gary Wallace at chev4cyl@charter.net has the parts.

Olle

Thanks very much for the tip. I have sent Gary an email, so hope to order then parts soon. Cheers.

Re your brake pins, you can use a an orinary bolt, and it easier to adjust.
A good hint is to drill a small hole through your bolt and run a wire through and the bracket and twist it. They can easier work loose and you lose them.
Chris

Hi Chris,

I agree and run bolts in my rear brakes, using a spring and a lock nut. The bolt is locked into the brake backing plate fitting either by pressure or a bit of loctite, and the lock nut in conjunction with the spring do and have done the job for the last 40 years.Your suggestion of the wire is a further and well thought development.

If anyone would like a picture, please let me know.

Cheers

Ray

Chris & Ray,

Thank You both for the excellent suggestion !!

I would really appreciate some photos.

Also, additional suggestions on brake adjustment and testing would also be greatly appreciated.

CW

Hi CW,

Please see the pictures attached I hope they help.






The spring is used to keep the band wanting to contact the drum, and the nylock nut keeps the clearance. In my case I use a hacksaw blade, set the rear clearance then the bottom and top of the band on the other side. I then road test the car and fine tune according to the heat of the brake drum. A hot drum on one side and cold on the other means the hot side is doing all the work. This will initaly pull to one side, sqeaul and eventually over heat and fade. I prefer to adjust the colder brake, road test again, with the desired result being a fairly even temperature.

On a new brake set up or rebuild it can be fiddly, but once done very easy to adjust.

Good luck, please let us know how you get on.

Regards

Ray Dean

Hi Ray,

The pictures are fantastic and really help !!

The bolt and nylock nut are no problem, but I am wondering about the spring. I am guessing the spring is part of the original set-up / original to the car. Is that accurate ?

I'll need to source a similar / same spring to ensure the tension is correct. Wondering if perhaps I should buy the spring from Gary Wallace to get the exact spring or whether something else would do?

Again, appreciate the guidance.

By the way, your car looks superb !!

Cheers,

CW

Hi CW,

I used springs from the local hardware store, measured the gap and purchased a couple of different sizes.

Regards

Ray

Hi Chuck apart from the parts already mentioned, you need to set the levers in the right configuration, assume that the person before you new nothing! this way you avoid compounding other peoples mistakes, as most brakes on lever and rod type cars are all wrong, after 70 plus years of wear and tear.
Undo all the links where there is a turn buckle adjustment remove the clevis pins and check for wear remembering every little bit add up, a grove of 1/16' on your pin is approx 1/2 inch of travel at the pedal, I went to the trouble on my 28 ( front brakes as well) of drilling out the holes and putting in the next size pin, set your brake pedal as per the manual with it engaging on the stop and the stop in it's furtherest position so the pedal is as close to the seat as will allow. Set the brake cross shaft lever so it is 30 degrees back from the fulcrum of its travel, THIS is critical, as you apply the brakes the arm needs to be crossing the apex of it's arc, this gives the maximum leverage. The biggest problem with vintage brakes is, over the years people just adjust the turn buckles and screws to shorten the length of the rods and you loose your leverage,
Once you have ascertained the position for the brake cross shaft lever then adjust your front connecting rod to fit. then move on to the next pivot arm. On a 27 and earlier this is easy as there is only the one on the cross arm under the chassis, With a 28 you need to do this at all the levers on the compensator bars under the drivers seat and the small idler levers down the side of the chassis rails leading to the front and rear brakes.
The levers on the 2 rods that go to the inner brake toggle shafts for the rear brake bands need to be set in the same fashion 30 degrees before the apex of there travel. Then ou can adjust you service brake bands as per the manual. Getting the levers all set right back to where they were at the factory make a huge difference, my 28 AB passed the modern inertia brake test every year for rego. I have tried to load a picture to show what i mean by the apex of the levers travel. RAY
[img]http://www.raycycled.com/index.php?q=img_assist/popup/425[/img]

Ray,

Thanks very much for this info! We'll go through the brakes as you have suggested. Great Advice !!

Cheers.

Hi Charles an all, the link is to drawing on my webpage, works for me, may be try again or go to www.raycycled.com and look at the 28 chev page, RAY