VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Big Brother

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/white-house-wants-black-boxes-all-future-cars-1C7497442

The Government wants to know where you're going.

Black Boxes in CARS!?!?!?!?! Just heard about this on TV news today.

The idiots in Wash DC need to concentrate on the economy, jobs and numerous other "situations." And quit thinking up stupid ideas that have nothing to do with Improving average "Joe Citizen's" life. End of Rant. Delete if necessary.....

First it was GPS, Onstar, Which is OK if you need assitance. But Black Boxes?

Come On Man!! That's a little bit of overkill isn't it?

Got bad news, they are already in newer cars right now.
Here is the link.
crash events

Black Boxes were in cars for years. They were put there to please the Insurance Companies, so after you have a accident they could maybe be able to find a excuse "NOT TO PAY YOU".
"Sorry the BOX tells us you was going 1 mile over the speed limit".....Just another tool to screw the consumer....Ed

Since we are trying to be like Europe so much..did you see where some congressmen are talking about a MILEAGE tax like the EU has. This is another tax to pay for government spending. I've slowed down as far as total mileage but this would bring in a HUGE amount of money. Also an AIRWAYS tax ( TV) would bring in a HUGE amount of money.The Goverrnment is getting larger and larger.

Got a note from State Farm the other day saying how much money I could save if I would just plug this particular box into my cars or truck so that they could keep track of my "good" driving habits. All I had to do was set up an appt to have it done. This is the same unit as Progressive advertises on TV obviously. Always trying to save customer money -- YEAH -- RIGHT. Must think we are all stupid. They sure could save themselves a ton of money by refusing or hasseling customers in the event of an accident!! So far, from what I know, (which aint too much) they have to have customer permission to pull the black boxes out after an accident to check you out. Lets hope that it never becomes a law that they can do it without customer permission. Getting tougher to live a quiet uneventful life with big money trying to get more money from the public.

Gentlemen,

This topic is turning political in nature and that is not permitted here in General Discussions or anywhere in Chat.

Having a "black box" computer as standard equipment in a car, as we have had for the past few years is certainly an interesting and acceptable topic to discuss here.

Explaining HOW it works and HOW it might be used is of interest to all car owners. Trying to take sides over the social/political aspects of it, is not something that we want to deal with here.

To discuss the TECHNICAL aspects of it is permissible here, but turning it into a political topic is NOT.

So let's keep the politics out of it please.

Thanks.



ken48
Chat Moderator

I was under the impression that the black box in todays cars are there because of the anti-lock brakes. The wheel speed, is measured electronically and recorded. The device is used by police when investigating accidents, and is useful in seeing how fast a car was going, and how soon braking occurred before a collision.

Insurance companys love black boxes. We've come a long way. There should be some way in the future to upload the black box data to the insurance co and let them decide the fault and put a direct depoist in your account ,or raise your premium if it's your fault. In a matter of seconds it could all be settled. Or you could just scan your hand or head and go from there..smiles


No problem mate.

An EDR (Event Data Recorder)also known as The Black Box is a device installed in a motor vehicle to record technical vehicle and occupant information for a brief period of time. The device records seconds before, during and after a crash for the purpose of monotoring and assesing vehicle safety system performance. EDR'swere originally designed as part of a control unit to help asses and improve air bag performance. As technology advanced, so did the design and functionality of the automotive Black Box. It can be used to asses may different things today.

It's all good...! You weren't doing something you weren't supposed to, were you...? lol

Hi....We are from your Insurance company and we are here to HELP YOU..trust us to be honest and fair with you.
We don't care about making money, we Love You and just want to be your friend and see that you are protected. GEE THANKS....Ed

They've been around for a while.

Our moderator has warned us about discussing the socio/political aspects of government mandated "event recorders" in vehicles and perhaps the discussion would get emotional. By that logic the general discussion chat should be eliminated since most of the subjects stray from pure technical issues.I'm usually supportive of chat moderator assessments but gotta disagree on this subject.
Given the NHTSA edicts that have affected the auto industry (and us motorists) over the last four decades, they tend to evolve toward more government control of our vehicles.Their argument is that it's in our, the nations, best interest. EXtrapolating that thinking, if the "event recorders" are necessary on NEW vehicles why not ALL vehicles? Don't think thats technically possible? It's very possible. The antique vehicle community has so far escaped the seat belt use mandates for those cars not originally equipped possibly bacause SEMA lobbyists have stated a strong case of difficult retrofitting. That case cannot be made against attaching an "event recorder" and the cost would likely fall on you, the owner. Maybe a $1000 or more out of your pocket. They can be designed to emit a signal that a Highway Patrol car electronics can detect.
perhaps my conjecture is only paranoia? I suggest you read (or reread if it's been over 40 years since you did) George Orwell's '1984'.No matter what the political stripe, government always has an insatiable need to control.
Dan

I have not heard of any "black box" suggestions down here yet but the Aus government generally isnt far behind the US in unneccessary and unwanted control ideas.
Tony

Moderator: You may delete the following without rankling any of my feathers.

I was thinking, however, that the VCCA mandate about avoiding political matters was more oriented toward avoiding "partisan" politics, as in Democrat vs Republican, etc. Yet, I can see where it may be easier to stay clear of politics, in general, than to try sorting out that which may overstep some boundary.

In any case, the idea of blaming Big Brother may rightly seem a bit overused and too easy. It must be remember, after all, we elected our representatives and senators.

Charlie

"Men at some time are masters of their fates: "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, ..." (from Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
Attributed. Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

Been watching this since the first post. Yes, this is the GENERAL forum. But that doesn't mean that you get to blow your cookies on anything that you want here. So far, I'm okay with the topic and how it's progressed. But it's only going to take one person to mention a "specific" person (eg. Politician, or The President) or to slander some sort of ongoing legislative activity - and WE WILL LOCK THE THREAD.

I think you all know that, so continue posting here, knowing that it only takes one person, or one posting to kill this discussion.


NOW -- having done my duty and warned you all - here's my thoughts on the topic because I find it kind of interesting.

In 2000 I started my '31 Coupe for the first time since 1956!! I have thought about how cool it would have been to have a "black box" left over in the car, which told me what all of the events were that it was subjected to, the very last time that it was driven.

Now flash ahead 20 years... in 2033, someone is going to buy a 2005 Chev that was parked in 2012 and not driven again. They will be able to "log" in and SEE what the last actions were before the car was parked for 20 years!! Pretty cool, huh?

Now, is that really useful? Probably not. But as a gearhead, I'd still like to know that information.

Now, is the government going to try to find a way to use this information? Of course they are... er... they already have, and are.

Now, are certain companies, such as Insurance Companies, going to find a way to use this information? Of course they are.

So, stop yur bitchin and figure out what you want to do about it. A posting HERE isn't going to matter a'tall. But I'd like to challenge you, "Is there anything that a private person (eg. Gearhead like me) can use this data for? How do we turn lemons into lemonade?


-Bill

How 'bout when the car quits and the mechanic wants to know what it was doing just before it stopped? Or a parent wants their kids to understand that black box will record their travels and can be used to determine if they were actually doing what they were supposed to? Think it might save a few lives? Injuries?

Like many have said (or written) "If you were not doing anything wrong what do you have to fear?" Just remember it ultimately takes a person to view and interpret the data from the black box for it to have any real meaning. Yes the data can be sorted and selected but not interpreted by machines.

How many of us have seen an advertisement for a vintage car that states "it ran when it was parked twenty years ago"...............with the black box, now we can find out.

You can also find out how many were in the car (seatbelt),Where the car has been ( Nav. Sym),how fast it was driven ( recorded mph/rpm),if its been wrecked (air bag),if it has been stolen (lojac),how many times its been serviced, how large the driver was (preset seat memory), how many garage doors you have (door openers preset),if you drive over the speed limit (nav pkg tells speed limit as you drive), what type music you listen to(preset SirusXM),cell phone number (bluetooth preset).

You should be pretty easy to find(or kidnap). smiles

If you're planning on running,the government can turn the car off ( On-Star)

Agreed, the data from 'black box' can be useful----- if YOU can access it. No worry about "Big Brother" if I'm not doing anything wrong? That's pretty naive. Scenario: I go visit an old friend havent seen in years, spend the afternoon B.S.ing. Some day s or weeks later the law shows up with a search warrant. Whoa, now the fun starts and you won't be told why. Maybe it turns out that your old buddy deals in drugs--stolen guns-- contributes to an organization our government deems terroristic. You may be found 'clean' eventually but your 'stuff' that was seized for the investigation --- maybe not for awhile. Your lawyers bills are on you. It happens every day guys--- but we are all nice law abiding old car hobbyests so not to us, right?
Well, I don't to give our government 'regulators' reason to poke through my 'stuff' and be guilty till proven innocent.Every day the net grows a little tighter.

Yeah, and how about Intelligent Parking Assist System (IPAS) (also known as Assistant Parking Guidance System (APGS).

That will tell you if the driver was too drunk to park his Lexus or just used the system to wedge his car in the parking space whilst he just sat back and took another sip from the brown bag (read "quart jar", in Tennessee).

It will also tell the divorce lawyers where the car was on certain nights when the spouse was on the job a-work their fingers to the bone. You've seen those TV programs on "Cheaters', right? Could be downright embrassing.

Lawyer: "Mr. Hill, I remind you that you are under oath. Now where were you on the night of 14 March 2015? "

Mr, Hill: "I was home washing the dishes and cleaning the house, windows too."

"Were you home the entire evening?"

"Yes. I was home alone the entire time. That is, until my wife came home following the finish of her shift at the ball-bearing factory."

"Do you work, Mr. Hill?"

"No."

"Why not?"

"Well, I got this here condition in my back that causes me some awful pain now and then. I can't work. You see?"

Do you have any hobbies?

"Yes, restoring my old 41 Chevrolet Cabriolet. (proudly) I do almost all the work myself, too!"

"That can require a lot of pushing, pulling, lifting and bending and all kinds of contortions of the body. I expect. How does your physician look at this ability to work on the restoration but not hold down even a sedate job?"

"He calls it therapy."

"Mr. Hill, tell the court what your wife does at the factory?"

"She merely shovels coal into the furnace. Piece o' cake. Look at her over there, She may be of slight build, but don't let that fool you. She can sometimes be a hand full, if you get my drift"

"Nonetheless shoveling coal into a furnace door would be a hot job, I imagine. Wouldn't you say so?"

"Well, they do furnish her heat shield clothing made of asbestos and a mask make of like material with a dark lens built in it. You know, like a welders hood. She has asbestos gloves and boots too! So how bad can that be?"

"Your honor, I'd like to show the court a video of the black box recording on Mr. Hill's Lexus." (video shows) "Now, Mr Hill, please note that the time is 9:00 P.M., 14 March 2015 on the screen." The video shows a Lexus sedan parking itself in front of a known "Hooker" hotel and a person fitting Mr. Hill's description getting out. The attorney smugly looks at Mr. Hill.

Judge (sympathetically): "Mr. Hill, care to comment?"

"Smoking gun, huh, judge?"

Judge: "Next case."


As to what good those boxes would do for the old car enthusiasts some 30 plus years in the future, I doubt they would care. After all who cares about the history of a Chevrolet Volt? The nostalgic crowd is dying out. Depressing.

Charlie

Somewhere I heard that the computers in a modern car are 20 times more capable than what was used to send the astronauts to the moon.

We used slide rules to get to the moon.