VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1916-1922 - Model 490 1916 All Season

I have found a running in good shape 1916 and am trying to get some kind of an idean on what it would be worth. Anyone have any ideas.

Hi there and welcome to Chevy Chatter II. Great to have you with us!

What model....sedan, touring or ????

Sedan, driver's door and a center door on the passenger side with the front seat that swivels front to back.

Hi Hardscrabble,
Are you sure it is a 1916 year model?, as 1916 490's were only available as a tourer with 3 doors , and a Roadster. Maybe you could check the casting date numbers on the side of the engine block and post them here.
Page 76 of the 1916-17-18 manual shows the body which you have described. My personal opinion is that it may be a 1918 model , and a very early sedan body indeed.

After a year I am back. The car I am looking at is a 1916 two door. Motor number 7950 and the block numbers are 3950 101213. Anyone have anything that would help me put a price on it?

Interesting. The body style you describe was introduced in 1918, with a single door on the driver's side, and a center door on the other side. Virtually none of these have survived. The posts between the windows were removeable, leaving the car completely open - really a true "hard-top" for practical purposes.

There is also some evidence that a so-called "All-Weather Tourer" or "All Season Tourer" was briefly introduced late in 1917, but this was a 4 door body style, not the style you have described. No one has been able to come up with a surviving photo of this 4-door 1917 body type, to my knowledge. I do have a brochure copy of the 1918 "Pre Announcement" for the sedan style you have described.

I cannot immediately make anything of the numbers you list for the engine. Could it be that your 101213 actually ends with an "8" instead of a "3"? If that were the case, then it would represent a casting date of 10-12-18 which would make sense. I assume the engine has a water pump at the front? which clearly would make it not a 1916 or 1917. Also, is the steering gear box up at the firewall, or down at the axle? Do the front fenders run in a straight line from the top of the wheel back and down to the running board; or do they make a round curve down to the running boards?

Most importantly, can you provide us with some PHOTOS of this car? That would be most welcome and valuable to us. The overall body, and under the hood. If you cannot figure out how to post them let us know and you can email them to one of us and we will post them for you.

With respect to your original question about value, the simple and sad truth is that Four-Nineties are not very valuable cars. Sound, running cars normally trade hands in the $5,000 to $10,000 range. Don't feel bad that it is represented as a 1916 model - it was very common years ago to try and make old cars appear even older. We frequently see 1918 or even newer Four-Nineties being titled and represented as 1916 or even 1915. We can help you get the the actual facts about what you have. And again - photos, please!

Here are some scans of the "Advance Announcement" of the all new 1918 Four-Ninety sedan! This was a big deal, building something other than an open car in this price range at the time. Hopefully some of the text will be legible. It describes the unusal door arrangement, etc. You can also see the "Hard Top" style with the window posts removed.

I really hope someone in VCCA would buy this if the car is for sale. Or if not, the owner should join as a member, the sooner the better. Marvellous find!

We have had some very few four-nineties for sale here in Norway the last years. Prices from $ 6.000 for a partly started restoration and car in many pieces up to $ 30.000 for an old restoration, but in fairly good shape (except for the gaskets, etc. to be changed). But these prices were what was asked, not what the sellers were paid at the end. And for some reasons they normally don't tell you the right (and quite often lower) amount.

I believe it may be possible to get around $ 20.000 for a good maintained, goodlooking and good running open car here in Norway at the moment.

Good luck!

I have some pictures but can't figure out how to add one or two.

If you use Photobucket, you can use this method:

https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php...e_Need_Help_Posting_Pix_from_#Post233191

Hope that helps.

Try these links.
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/mdmartin7/IMG-20121028-00178.jpg
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/mdmartin7/IMG-20110429-00077.jpg
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/mdmartin7/IMG-20110429-00078.jpg
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/mdmartin7/IMG-20121028-00177.jpg
http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/mdmartin7/IMG-20110429-00080.jpg

With permission of the owner of the photos, below are some of the photos from the links above so you can see them directly. Several interesting things to notice: the fender style is the early, straight 490 style. Someone decided to chrome plate the radiator shell and headlight buckets to make things prettier, I guess. The engine compartment is a little more difficult. The steering gear is down low as on 1918 and later. It has a water pump, again showing 1918 or newer. The vacuum tank fuel system would make sense on a sedan versus the gravity system on the touring car. It clearly appears to be a Model H rocker cover / valve cover fitted to the cylinder head, no doubt to reduce the mess it makes. Not sure what I am seeing in the intake manifold area, with the boxed in section and the third middle connection back to the head? - can anyone help? More photos may be coming. This is certainly a very early Chevrolet sedan.

The Chassis and suspension is showing semi elliptical front springing which is not on a 490 model, the steering is also through the chassis on the Left hand front chassis rail(not 490 model).

Six Lug detachable wheels are also not 490 wheels.(1917 to 1921 had 5 lugs)

Maybe the 490 radiator shell is incorrect to this vehicle and it is an F-A-5 sedan. Maybe some one more familiar with the FA series will take a look.

Yes - This is a 1918 FA Sedan. The same body was used on the first 1514 1919 FB Sedans.
kenK

Agree, I was having the exact same thoughts after I posted. In fact, I have already asked the fellow to measure the wheelbase. If it is an FA Model, that would also explain the other discrepancies we are seeing under the hood, such as the rocker cover. And the car number, maybe. Wheelbase is 102" for 490, 108" for FA.

I must of stay up to late last night because I should of wrote this car is a 1919 FB that had the left over 1918 Hayes-Iona 2 door Sedan body mounted on the 1919 first 1514 FB chassis. The FB used the 43950 block casting # a two piece oil pan. The FB a clutch bell housing that adapted the transmission to the engine. There was one of these early 1919 FB 2 door Sedans at the 2006 Anniv. Meet.
kenK

I think the vehicle (1919 2-dr FB sedan) Ken is referring to was at the 2001 Anniversary Meet, owned by Bob Sovis at the time, and currently housed in the Albaugh collection in Ankeny, Iowa. That particular vehicle didn't make the trip to Grand Junction. Certainly a unique vehicle with the pillars removed.

Yes, Bob Sovis' 1919 FB 2-Door was at the 40th Anniversary Meet in Springfield, IL (see below). Ken may also be thinking about Jim Hickman's 1920 FB 4-Door that was at both the 40th and the 45th in Colorado.

I'm always eager to learn - Ken, what makes this car an FB versus an FA? Does the 43950 engine number indicate the larger 224 cubic inch version of the 4 cylinder? I believe both the FA and the FB ran this larger engine, but not the earlier F in 1917. And what is the "extra" equipment we see in the middle of the intake manifold all about?

Bob Sovis's 1919 FB 2 Door shown below at 40th Anniversary Meet -

The block casting number for a FA is 40050 and for a FB is 43950. Both are long stroke engines. The 1918 FA and D chassis share most of the same parts like rear axles, transmission, clutch.
The intake manifold on the FA/FB is heated by exhaust gases.
In the Model T Truck Parts Book both the FA/FB engine parts are listed.
About 1920 the production of the FB engine was turned over from the Chevrolet Motor Plant in Flint to the Saginaw Products Company at its Saginaw Motor Plant which was under GM's Central Parts GP. This long stroke "Saginaw" engine was used in several other GM Div, such as the Chev Model T, Olds 1 ton Truck, Olds 43A, Samson car and trucks, Sheraton and can be identifed by the prefix A (1921); B (1922); and C (1923) in front of the engine serial number. This engine was also built in 1921-22 in Canada by GM Canadian Products at its Walkerville Motor Plant. These engines have the prefix "CP".
kenK

Thank you for that very comprehensive and detailed answer, Ken. Good information! I am saving this into my database so I know next time.

What a great find! Would love to see some interior photos and the swivel drivers seat. Let us know how things turn out.

Cheers,
Gary

This has turned out to be an exciting and clarifying story about the early Chevrolets. Thanks, all of you contributing to the fascinating information.

I really appreciate everyone for the information on this car. As soon as I get the key to the garage I will share more photos.