VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Radial tire - application of

Hello,

I am going to acquire a set of radial tires for a '40 Special Deluxe Chevrolet to make touring a bit easier and safe. My question is two-fold:

1. Are the Coker/Firestone radial tires that "match" the original bias plys the best choice (versus some other manufacturer/brand and

2. Are the stock wheels appropriate and the BEST solution for having these tires fitted to or should I consider some other alternative?

Thanks!

- James

Just to be clear, the concern from my local Firestone dealer is that the modern radials won't "seal" on the original wheels because of the newer style of tire design.

Have others simply bought new, modern wheels to put the radials on?

if so, will the original hubcaps affix to the modern wheels or must some modification be made?

Thanks!

James,Are you sure that you want the Firestone radial tire that Coker sells?That is a "sports car" tire design and only available in black.Coker has a new 16" wide white wall .There 2003 catalog says it will be out this year.(I believe Coker tires are made bt Cooper).Also I think they recommend tubes be used with 16" radial tires.I would ask Coker what they recommend as they sell them.As a note their catalog also states "Rims designed for bias tires can crack because of the extra stress placed upon them with radial tires.This would be especially bad with rusted rims.Wheels designed for radial tires are much heaiver.There are some 6 hole truck wheels in 15" that you could use.The more common later version of them will not "take" your stock hub cap.To prove what radial tires do.Many with '53s and up can't keep their wheel covers from turning on the wheel or coming off due to wheel flex.I know that a lot of people like their radials but a good set of new 6.00 X 16 bias tires will give you no problems and are more than adquate tires for a stock 1940 Chevrolet.

Gene,

I'm definitely keeping a black tire on them - no white walls in 1940.

As for the issue of radials on bias ply rims, I figured you might say that. Seems that if I choose the radial tire, then new wheels are a must. But I sure hate to lose having the proper hubcaps. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

- James

Gene, you are right on, Did you hear about my wheelcovers during this years SSTIV, I was driving at about 65 on a bumpy LA. highway trying to catch up,after stopping to see if we could render aid to a club member and lost two from the '53 they do make a racket when they come off at 65 under a fender skirt! I gotta get either some late model wheels or some bias ply WWWs two 53 wheelcovers new are $140. That could happen almost any time you get up to highway speed and turn or the road gets bumpy and the radials flex.

Gene,

Your thoughts confirm what the local Firestone Dealer was telling me. Thanks!

I will be making a decision on this matter. If anyone else has some thoughts to add, I'd appreciate hearing them.

- James

An interesting thread guys ,, I had no idea that the original rims could flex so much.
I have Dunlop 700R15 Steelmaster radials on my pickup , it has the original 15" rims . The tyres have been on for over 30,000kms. and are still in excellent condition .
I am very impressed with the long life of these tyres and the dramatic improvement in road manners of the old truck ('40 1/2 ton)
Of course the original hub caps are the small variety and are securely mounted with the 6 original spring clips so I dont expect any trouble there , even on our pretty awful roads .
I empathise with you loosing the trims on your car MrMack , not a pleasent experience at all .
My choice of tyre was prompted by my desire to retain the original tyre height and looks .
The benefits have been much improved handling and mileage , definately a positive move .

James, I don't mean to imply that there are no advantages to radial tires.Just wanted to bring out some negitives.The bias tires that I have and have worn out a few sets on various cars, are good for only about 20,000 miles.This is in high speed use, usually 60 MPH or better.They tend to be more difficult to balance and can be out-of -roumd.The tread milage is comparable with tires of years ago and the polyester cords are superior to the cotton used when a 1940 car was new.I have never has a problem with a bias tire-have some almost 20 years old on some of my cars and still doing well.To get the best from a radial tire a wider width rim should be used also.The 1940 has a narrow 4" rim.

On my 1969 Impala Sport Coupe with 14 inch wheels, I tried three sets of bias tires. Never got over 9,000 miles out of a set. Switched to radials and I am now averaging 40,000 miles on a set of tires with the same driving conditions as the bias tires. For everyday driving, radials are the only way to go. Got them on my 1970 Impala too! It has 15 inch wheels, however, on this car I do have wheel flex on the front wheels only. The wheel covers do spin once in a while, but on the 1969 they never have.

VJ,

I suggest you contact Phil Hubbard, from the LMR, on the subject of your Radial Tire selection. phubbard@Frontiernet.net Phil has 2 or 3 '41's that he tours with and one set of Radial tire and wheel assemblies that he moves around as needed. He should be able to give you first hand knowledge on the use of Radials on a vehicle close to your vintage. If you can wait, I'm pretty sure that he will be attending your tour in a couple of weeks and you can discuss the issue with him personally.

Yes, I agree that radial tires are a much needed improvement for driveing, I just wanted to caution those about mounting them on old rims that were designed for bias ply tires. The small hubcaps and radial tires on old rims work ok for ocassional driveing, however there is another problem related to old flexible rims ( before about 1960) when radials began to become popular in the USA. When used on pickups and panel trucks and heavyer vehicles the old rims pose a safety problem after several thousand miles they have been known to split and fail from metal fatigue. I have a couple of rims from a 1955 Chevrolet on the 53, I thought they would be ok, but they behave the same as the original 53 rims. If you want to run radials please find some late model wheels newer than 1960 for your old chevy. I have used radials since 1962 on Chevrolet cars, trucks from a corvair up thru a one ton panel (1962) and on trailers from a small utility trailer, a 34' coachman travel trailer and three car haulers. Ihave been pleased with their performance. The only problems I have had were with the ones that came with new cars and trucks from Detroit, after a few thousand miles the started thumping, I replaced them with Michelin radials every time, the last one was the 2001 Tahoe.I have been getting up to 70,000 miles before they show signs of needing replaced, the problem is when they do fail it is usually pretty sudden and sometimes scarey, remember the Ford Exployer? ( ) that's what happens when you are a poor driver and run too little air pressure in tires on a poorly designed vehicle (IMHO)

I spoke with a Coker representative today and he indicated that he was aware of no problems with mounting modern radials on the original rims.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

- James

Hes the man to believe....I don't think he would say this just to sell tires.But did you ask him why they have the warning in their catalog?.....I believe Phil has 15" wheels with modern radial tires.If you find a set of 15" wheels from a '48 and mount a set of modern radials that you can purchase for about $50 each you will have a set of tires for show and a set fo go.The hub caps will fit either wheel also and the larger size like a 205-75 X15 tire will have more air volumn for a better ride.This will work fine as you want black walls.These are my plans for my 1950 as it came with an extra set of correctly striped wheels.Will also use the wheels on my '57 for long runs.

I just replaced the Lester 6.00x16 tires on my '37 with www radials from Diamond Back Classic Tires, an excellent company to do business with. They're a Dunlop tire and the white walls are vulcanized onto them. I put them on about two months ago and only have about 600 miles on them so far, but I couldn't be happier and still have my wheel covers & trim rings. The tires are mounted on the original, stock '37 wheels and they ride much nicer and certainly corner better than the bias ply tires they replaced. I drive the car quite a bit at highway speeds (55+) and I wanted tires I could depend on. The Lester tires had about 12,000 miles and were close to being too bald to pass inspection. I also found a bubble in the side-wall of one of the Lester tires when I removed them. If you're main interest is in touring and driving, I would heartily recommend radial tires.

-Bob

I probably have given this speach before but this seems like a good time to repeat it.

In 1968 Chevrolet first started to evaluate Radial tires on their durability and development test vehicles. One of the first things that happened was the production wheels cracked within the bolt circle due to the increased lateral loads generated. We managed to catch the condition before someone got hurt and the condition occurred more that once before we started to understand why. A cracked wheel can give off a chirping sound noticeable during slow speed operation. A flexing full wheel cover can make the same sound.

I'm not trying to discourage the use of Radial tires, because with the type of usage most of us give our antique vehicles we would probably never have a problem. But if your using Radial tires on vintage Chevrolet wheels from the early 70's or earilier, you should be aware of the potential problem. Where I really have concerns are when I see the modified vehicles using them and driving aggressively. In many cases those guys have increased the weight on a given wheel through their modifications and then adding a little aggressive driving is a recipe for disaster.

Right on Oldie and it is a credit to Chevrolet Engineering that caught the problem before it killed anyone.....Anyone want to buy a slightly used 1995 Ford Explorer?

I run a set of ww radial from Diamond Back Classics on my 1940 16 inch rims with no problems. A number of guys in the local chapter do also. Diamond Back sells Dunlop 215/70R16 replacements for the old 6.00x16. I sure like mine!

So is 215/70R16 the proper size of modern radial to replace the bia ply?

And thus, couldn't I just go to my local Goodyear or Firestone dealer and buy this tire rather than buying Diamond Back or Coker, etc. ? I'm going with black wall, not white walls.

- James

Diamond Back Classic Tires told me that 215/70R16 is the correct size to replace the 6.00-16 bias ply tires and that's the size I purchased. They further stated that they have sold "hundreds" of the radial tires and have had no report of any wheel failures. This is not to say there couldn't be any failures and I'll certainly keep an eye on my wheels. Meanwhile, they improve the ride a thousand-fold. -Bob

Bob,

Are you putting tubes with that? Coker sells a replacement radial that requires a tube with it.

- James

James, The correct radial size to replace 6.00 X 16 is the 185R X 16 that Coker sells.The reason Diamond Back uses the 215 X 70 size is because its the narrowest size made in a modern radial tire (in 16 ")The sizes go 185-195 205 -215-getting wider as the numbers go higher.If you want to use the 215 X 16 size they are available in most brands of tires.Its not a common size and not available in a narrow white wall so it would be the black wall that you want.Due to the odd size it wouldn't be available in a cheaper tire but would be less than the white Diamond Backs.I know several people that run this size and are happy with them (including Bob).They will look a bit wider when on the car.....I tried to stir up a little controversy here to help get others opinions .Everyone that I have talked to that has switched to radials has been happy with them.

You are indeed a trouble maker, Gene. Keep up the good work. Jim Leman.

James,
Diamond Back Classic Tires suggested that I NOT use tubes, so to make sure I didn't void the warranty, I followed their instructions. So far, after approx. 8-weeks, I haven't had to add any air, so I guess they were right!

-Bob

Stay with the bias ply tires. I had radial tires on two old cars and didn't like either of them.

Just to let you know what I ended up doing....

We put new bias ply tires on the '40 with new tubes. The car is definitely riding better than the old tires (which had rounded from lack of use) and should provide a good drive.