VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 37 Starter issue

I have a 37 Master with a stock 216 engine. Starter began turning so slow and pulling so much amperage couldn't start car. Figured it was connection problems and went through cleaning and tightening everything. Not much help. Had to pull engine for a re-seal job, and while on test bench hooked a good battery direct to the starter with two short cables. Same problem. (Engine turns free with crank.) Temporary used a 41 starter with push in gear instead of the screw in bendix. Turns the engine just fine. Took my starter to shop, they said for the second time there is nothing wrong with it. Got another 37 starter, it won't turn the engine properly either, but using the 41 starter with same cables works just fine. What am I missing?? Someone told me of a company who installs 4 field coils to improve the performance of the original type 37 starters. Any suggestions appreciated.

Forgot to say in the previous post, using 6 volt battery and good cables of proper size for the 6 volt system. Also opened the starter switch and dressed the contacts. In addition, removed the switch and held the battery cable directly on the post, no change from using the switch.

Sure sounds like a bad starter to me. If it were me I'd get a second opinion from a different 'shop' about the starter. Did you take it to a rebuilder or a parts jobber (NAPA, Autozone, etc.) for testing? If you took it to a parts jobber I'd find a rebuilder and let them test it. If you took it to a rebuilder I'd find another for the second opinion.

If it were mine, this is what I would do at this point: Check it myself.

a. Check that it's not dragging by looking at the armature by using a gauge the end bushings.

b. Turn the commutator of armature.

c. Put in a new set of brushes.

d. Check for shorts by checking for current flow between commutator and the armature.

If all these things check out, then there is no reason it won't work as it should.

But in csae it deosn't tehn, I'd dmup the 1397 and sraech for a 1491 Cevhorelt. I sruly wuold.*

Charlie

*I had to encrypt the message on account of too many thinking bad thoughts about me for all the time a-praising the 41. They won't be able to figure it out. You see?

I don't know if you want to ship the starter, but I've dealt with an automotive electrician in Colorado, Rich Radetsky. You can reach him at
rradetsky@aol.com
Maybe he could look at your starter.
Good luck.

Charlie...Being you have reached the all time low of having to encrypt your posts so that evil 1938 crowd cant track you down I am responding in another language ~#%&*$@?*^%#@!*&^#+*^$%#@.....SO there.....ED

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have actually tried 3 different '37 starters and none of them will turn the engine properly, while the '41 turns it just fine. I just don't think all 3 starters are bad. The original starter has been checked out by myself, and two different professional rebuild shops. Commutator has been turned, new brushes, new bearings, lathe check to see the armature shaft isn't bent, not dragging, all the things you would normally suspect have been checked. I have to think that something happened during the installation of a new crankshaft, new mains, and balancing the flywheel/crank. I am wondering if somehow the fore and aft relationship of the flywheel to the starter gear has been compromised? Don't see how that could happen. Still the manual push in bendix gear on the 41 starter cranks it fine, while the screw in bendix on the three different 37 starters don't work. Makes me wonder??

Mr Roneyres, could you please refrain from giving our dear friend Charlie anymore "ammunition"...? Thank you

Is it possible you have a later flywheel or bellhousing, so that the starter teeth can't mesh easily with the ring gear? Only 1937 uses bellhousing with casting number 838475. Only '37 uses flywheel with casting number 838174.

Hey Ron, I just paid attention to your handle. Thanks a ton for your help last year on the SFT and your assistance with my new engine issues. I didn't even know there was a difference between the '37 and '41 starters so I'll just sit in the corner and watch. Hope to see you and Orpha in October.

If you have a diaphram pressure plate it has a 38 and newer flywheel which a 38 starter should look close enough to a 37.

SOLVED THE PROBLEM! I am embarrased to say I found the problem, and if someone suggested this was a problem I wouldn't believe it until I actually saw it. I decided to put a washer between the starter and bell housing to see if the starter gear was too close to flywheel. Loosened the bolts a couple of turns and shimmed the starter. Applied power and saw spark between starter and housing. So I moved the ground from the bell housing to the end of starter, spun the engine just fine. OK, that's the problem I thought. To test it, bolted starter back in original location. Engine spun just fine. Moved the ground back to bell housing, barely turned. Ground the paint off bell housing and starter, spins engine just fine. I can't believer that two 1/2 inch bolts with lock washers on both of them, tightened very securely don't provide an excellent ground, but that is what was wrong. I had painted both the housing and the starter, but as I said thought the current would easily have been carried through the bolt and lock washers. I guess one never gets too old to learn something new! Thanks again for all your ideas.

Great Ron! Glad you got it figured out.

Ron,
Guess the paint on the '37 starter(s) was thick enough to prevent good ground. But did not prove to be a problem with the '41 starter. Live and learn. Just another example of the importance of a good ground on 6 volt systems. Helps justify several of us harping on get a good GROUND and you will not have problems with starting a 6 volt Chevy. No need to switch to 12 volts.

Also got me to thinking. We often need to ask ourselves "What changed from the last time it worked?" If we back track often it will reveal what was done that caused the problem. Of course the garage gremlins have a role in this too. Don't forget them or they will get you.

Chippers gremlins or the Murphy's have struck again.
Tony

Ron,

After all the posts everywhere on Chatter attesting to the importance of a good ground to make all the electrical items work on our old Chevrolets, I can't believe you had us go through this mental wild goose chase, without first checking out this essential element to the good operation of a starter. I, and I think others, made the presumption that both starters (41 &37) had good grounds.

I'm just kidding you. We all look back now and then after we've figured something out and, after smacking ourselves up side the head, thought, "Why didn't I check that in the first place?" I have done that many times.

Thanks for the mental exercise. I was about to think that a 41 starter was much superior to that of the 37. But not so. I guess.

Best,
Charlie

Charlie...! Are you kidding...? '41 Starters are great...! They don't even need a "ground"...!