VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Chasing the leak - chapter 2

This tsarted out in a thread about something else so I decided to give it its own thread.

We had come to the conclusion that it couldn't be the slinger so I proceeded to remove the transmission, the clutch and the flywheel. Well, gentlemen, now we know it isn't the oil gallery tube plug.



We do know it is coming from around the crankshaft. If it isn't the sl;inger, then could it be the rear seal of the oil pan? I don't think it would go between those covers would it?



So before I go take the oil pan off & the rear main cap, I'm waiting for opinions.

If you don't see cork gasket material on the outside of the rear end of the oil pan then it is likely the problem. It all that looks good then look closely for any sign of oil leakage past the corners where the side and end pan gaskets come together. If none then, it likely is the rope seal. Many have reported problems with the modern replacement rope seal.

I thought there wasn't a rope seal in a '34 Master.

Chip,

In order to see that do you think I better remove the bell housing as well?

As long as you have gone that far removing the bell housing would be a good move.
There is no rear main seal but they could have screwed up some thing elese with the main bearing.
To install an oil pan gasket the side rail gaskets must be installed first. The little tabs on each end of the side gasket must fit into the main bearing cap. Then the end corks are installed . The ends of the end corks must contact the tabs on the side gaskets.
To hold the side gaskets up to the block I prefer to use grease. Also I have 4 studs (cut off 1/4" bolts) that I thread into the block. They keep the side gaskets from slipping around and act as a guide to get the pan to seat in the correct location.

Your right no rope seal on the '34. Was still thinking '41 and didn't make the switch.

Pat, I'll throw this information out there-I'm not saying this is the problem-don't know the condition of the engine. In my 31-36 Mechanics repair manual (p.10)it states that an excessive oil leak at the rear main can be caused by too much crankshaft end play. "it allows the oil slinger to scrape the sides of the oil trough in the block and cap.It goes into more detailed info-let me know if you are interested. This is also shown on page 13 and 14 of the Shop manual. The rear main cap ball area also has to be clean and open. I guess if the crank has too much end play it can cause problems. I can't speak for others but ChevNut probably has seen this before.

Thanks Master Six. We are getting there. Instead of removing the bell housing I removed the two plates at the front and it gave me a clear view of the rear of the pan As you can see in the first picture the oil pan gasket is doing its job. It looks crooked but that is paint on the cork. In the second picture we can see the oil between the bearing cap and the flange. Next is to remove the pan. I suppose the tie rod is easier to remove than the crossmember. Looks like one of them has to come out.

Got the oil pan off. Getting the tie rod out of the way wasn't sufficient. Had to remove the crossmember too. Needed that extra 1/2".



Here are photos of both sides of the pan gasket and of the main bearing cap. Anything abnormal so far?







I suppose I should be getting a new pan gasket kit? Ot is reversing the end corks sufficient?

Drop the rear main bearing cap and give us some shots of the cap, bearing and crankshaft journal.
If the gaskets all stayed in place I would CONSIDER reusing them if they all have a nice indentation of the oil pan rails. If removed (end corks) reuse in the same position.

Get some plastic gauge and check rear main clearance. If more than .0015 this could be your leak!

Not to add to your problems, but do I see antifreeze on the bottom of that bolt?
Richard

It appears that all the hanging drops are the same and are oil.

Ray,
If you look closely at the first photo you will see a fluorescent green drop. Think it might be from a water pump drip.

Yep, I saw that one, but it is obvious that came from the radiator and not the rear main.

That is right. It is at the front. it came from a small spill when we topped up the rad to warm her up for the valve adjustment.

Attended the wake and funeral of a former high school teacher of mine yesterday and today. It was a mini reunion of sorts with many former classmates there. I'm not sure what they are drinking but do they ever look old!

Came home to a delivery; we have headlight buckets and bumpers.
Here I was beginning to plan taking the old b***h back to the field where I found her, giving her a good dousing of gas and setting her on fire to make her go back to the appearance she had when I picked her up. But where would I hang that bling? I guess we'll carry on.

OK folks, here's the bearing cap and rear main journal. It looks from the angle like the slinger touches the block but it doesn't. Is that little ball a check valve? Could it be that it was stuck in some prelube and wasn't doing its job?

Yes, the ball is a check valve and it should be in the open position (resting against the pin). Can't tell in the photo but if the ball was all the way back (away from the pin) when you removed the cap it was blocking the oil return hole. If that is the case then that would cause a major oil leak.

The ball and the oil return hole look very dirty in the photo. You might want to make those areas super clean so that the ball doesn't get stuck in the back (closed) position.

Looks like we may have found the culprit. It felt like it was stuck in grease. We'll see if anyone else sees something else wrong then I guess I have to start putting her back together.

I would agree with JYD. You also may want to check the rear main tolerances since it as apart. Good Luck!

Once I have the cap cleaned up and the ball free, what do I torque it at? Also, Is there anything wrong about using lock washers instead of the tab locks? My tablocks have a few ears missing.

I would caution against using lock washers, the washer will dig in and give you a false torque reading, you won't get proper stretch on the bolt. If your tab locks are bad and you can't source a replacement get some sheet steel and make yourself some.
Don

Pat
Don is right, the engine was designed with tab washers and other types will give false tension (clamp) readings and may not properly lock the bolt.
Tony

The new flywheel bolts that you buy come with (star washers)
that is what I used. Haven't had any problems so far...