VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 '30 or '31 wiper?

My '31 Standard Sedan is far from VCCA judgement, and probably won't ever get there. But over the years, I've slowly undone all those things that were "fixed" in its life, going back to original.
My present attack is the wiper. It's always bugged me.
It has a Trico vacuum unit that actually works quite well. My problem is the control (valve) is mounted below the dash. I'm familiar with that crazy '31 control wire through the header and the on-off switch on the motor.
But when I pulled the upholstery panel, there's no hole (or slot?) in the wooden header, and no evidence outside either of a control rod ever being there.
The motor has several patent dates on the housing, from 1923-1928. The valve on the dash even has "Trico" on it.
My question is this:
I know that back then, model changes weren't strict and they often tried to use up the old stuff before using the new. But I also know by the hood, bumpers and rear door hinges that this is NOT an "early" '31, but it's not the first thing I've discovered that seems to be 1930. Is it possible that this is a 1930 wiper system? and original? (Information on '30's is not as plentiful as '31's, so I've never seen a good picture, drawing or spec.)

If you go to the Members Photos section of the forum, you will see photos of a '31 Wiper Control I posted a couple weeks ago. These show a couple of clues for you. The first is outside, where there is a small hole (about 1/8" dia) in bottom edge of steel header where the control rod comes through. Second photo shows the alignment of the control rod. There was not a slot required for this as the rod was designed to fit between top of the header board and the 1x1 wood framing piece above it as shown. If you have no evidence of the outside small hole (i.e. it was not filled in by someone), then you do have a mystery I suspect. It was not unusual for Canadian models for '31 to be fitted with 1930 parts of left over inventory, my '31 Coach (assembled in April 1931) came with a '31 Hood with 1930 latches, and also 1930 door handles. So you may be onto something.

Mine's not a Canadian, but rather a St Louis car.
There is no hole, nor evidence of one, on the outside metal header. (I need to re-paint this panel anyway, so I'll sand it and see for sure.)
I thought because of the 'full' hood louvers, single-piece bumpers, and 2-hinge rear doors that this was a "later" production. But after researching the Body No. (S 6621), it may have been built in November, 1930.
Does anyone have info on the 1930 wiper control?
You people are the best trove of help & information! Thank you!

I am 99.99% sure that your 1931 car did not come with a '30 wiper. Since the vacuum valve is mounted below the dash instead of in a hole in the dash, it was a later replacement. The '30 and earlier cars had the vacuum valve mounted in a hole in the dash not under it.

The mount for both '30 and '31 will allow either wiper motor to be installed.

The hole in the metal outside header is difficult to find even when looking. It is on the lower edge.

Actually, the 1930 models had the wiper control valve mounted on the flange under the instrument panel, not in a hole on the instrument panel.

Guess I got corrected on that one. Since I don't have a '30 (yet) I assumed that it was the same as my '28s and '27s. It uses the same valve as the '27.

Are there pictures (internet?) showing the '30 control?
This is a screw-turn (needle?) valve, mounted on a small angle bracket, attached to the lower flange of the dash, at the far left side. It's that "added on" look that got me curious in the first place.
The valve body and the knob both have the 'triangular' Trico logo, and the knob says "TRICO Automatic". The copper line running up the pillar, to the header, to the motor, is hard-plumbed to the valve. There is a fabric-covered rubber vacuum hose from the intake manifold, through a grommet in the firewall, to the valve.
I've almost decided that since this all appears to be period-correct, and it DOES work (if it ain't broke...), I'll just leave it. Like I said, my car's not judge-worthy (yet). But, I'd like to know.

The vacuum valve in 1930 was located on the lower flange of the instrument panel (the flange is part of the instrument panel and not an addition) just right of the steering wheel. The valve has a knurled knob and the valve is a screw-turn needle type of valve.

With the exception of the location of your valve and the "added on" bracket, the rest of your description of the installation is pretty much the same as 1930.

But does anyone have a spare one of these valves or know where to get one? My '29 coach has a hole in the dash and no valve at all............

All the Best, Chip

Chip I got a valve from a place in Texas I think right now I can't remember the name but will get up to the garage tomorrow and let you know who and where.

Great! Thanks, I appreciate it.

All the Best, Chip

You can get a new wiper valve from Stanley's Parts in Fort Worth, Texas.

Thanks Skip...

All the Best,

Chip

Thanks JD that is the place I got my shut off valve from. I was just in Fort Worth 2 weeks ago. The MIND is a strange thing. Anyway that is the information I had.

31rob55:Just curious whether you found evidence of that small hole for control rod in under edge of header below where wiper mounts? If not there, we do possibly have a mystery on our hands.

Actually, I did find "evidence". I removed the wiper motor, and sanded down this panel for repaint. There, just at the edge, approximately just below the left motor mount hole. It appeared to have been brazed closed (brass-colored metal)- no bondo, no lead or other filler - and sanded smooth. All of this handy-work was below what I think to be original paint.

I honestly think that this is an original installation of a '30 wiper on a '31. The motor and the valve check out. As far as the location of the valve and the little angle-bracket - since there was no hole in the dash or dash flange, this is where it would have been the "easiest", cleanest, and most convenient. (The copper tube running up the pillar to the header is hard-plumbed to the valve.)

Does anyone out there have another "early" St. Louis car (S 6621) to compare to?

If the hole was filled in 1930 or 1931 they would have used lead not brass. That was the filler used by the Fisher Body factories. Have never seen "original" brazing on any of the bodies I have seen in the past 40+ years of working on and restoring 1931 Chevys. The Fisher Body Service Manual from that period shows soldering to repair sheet metal. Quote: "It (brazing) is particularly valuable in mending drop forgings and malleable castings which are used for body braces."

I am 99% confident in the above but since I was not present in the St. Louis Fisher Body plant during 1931 can't be 100% sure. Also don't know why someone felt they needed to seal the hole. It is on the bottom lip and not easily seen. It also does not significantly increase the possibility of water getting to inner parts.

I'm inclined to agree with Chipper, i.e. a previous owner, perhaps a long time ago who knows, removed the original control rod, filled the hole neatly, and installed a valve similar to earlier models. The original copper tubing coming down the door post was likely long enough to fit directly to the new valve provided the valve was on driver's door side. Highly unlikely this was Factory, possibly done by a dealer, but he would not have gone to the trouble of filling the hole and repainting the header. So a previous owner is the only logical conclusion.

I own several classic antique cars, mostly Chrysler products, but among them a 1931 Chevrolet Special Sedan.
I have been in this crazy hobby for almost 50 years. I am active in several Chrysler, Studebaker and Marmon associations and groups. But I abandoned the VCCA years ago, because of your snobbish attitude - not just to Ford and Chrysler people, but even to your own Chevy fans.

I visit this forum often as a guest, because you DO have a lot of good information here.
But most of your regular posters have that awful VCCA know-it-all, I'll-have-the-last-word attitude.

My '31 Chevrolet was built in St. Louis in 1930, only about 150 serial numbers from 31rob55's. I have to come to his defense. My wiper is exactly the same, and I know it is original.

The other groups I'm in would of course judge a correct, original installation higher. But , even though insufficiently documented, 31rob55 would get bonus points for his attempt to justify preserving what he believes to be a factory modification.
"Preservation" is more meaningful than "Restoration".
You should be more open-minded. You should read your own association's goals.

This will probably be my only post. You can delete my login.

37Airflow,
As one of the regular posters I feel compelled to comment on your statement.

You can ignore it or consider it as an example of "the last word" or what ever you want. The fact is that some of us have spent many years (in my case over 40) researching 1931 Chevrolets, owning 1931 Chevrolets, restoring 1931 Chevrolets. I currently own 5 '31 Chevrolets and am assembling another from parts. I don't claim to know everything about them but have looked at probably 1000 different 1931 Chevrolets over the past 40 years ranging from relatively unmolested originals to top quality restorations.

I have checked into numerous claims that a particular part was "original" even though there is no documentation produced or known to support it. In all but a small few cases they have been found to not be as the vehicle was originally assembled. One was a '31 Coupe in Iowa that had different pin stripe ends on opposite sides of the car. Most were found to have modifications to keep the vehicle operational when parts were not available or very difficult to obtain (like during WW II) or dealer installations that were not factory authorized.

Now I ask you how do you know that your wiper is "original"? Do you have any documentation to support it?

I have read the VCCA goals many times, lived and practiced preservation and restoration of old Chevrolets over the past 40 years. I have also assisted VCCA members and others in their efforts to preserve and restore Chevrolets as a Technical Advisor. You can call me a snob if you wish but I will continue to try to assist people in their preservation and restoration efforts based on the best documentation and observation available. I will also question claims that something is "original" when it deviates from what is documented or the production practices from the time a vehicle was produced. If someone can produce compelling evidence to support a claim I will seriously consider it.

I still have some parts from a 1931 Special Sedan K 222 with casting dates in early November 1930 and with a '31 wiper like all the rest I have ever seen.

I stay away from Arkansas. The only time I was ever mugged it was by a crooked Arkansas cop.

Thank you, guys.
I didn't mean to start a feud.

I respect your knowledge and opinion - that's why I wrote you in the first place.

I like the "long-ago dealer modification", possibly to save money, or for lack of correct parts.
That's my story now, and I'm sticking to it.

While I have been a member and follower of this site for only 4 years, I truly value the advice offered by the authorities, skeptics, snobs, old farts, rookies, like-minded Joes, BS'ers, know-it-alls and everyone else, from all corners of the world. Most of us I would think are smart enough to separate the wheat from the chaff and are trying to gain the best authoritative advice on what a certain '31 Chevrolet model came with from factory and dealer. We know there was:
1. The standard '31 Spec car, which had most stuff universal for every model, such as updraft carb, or VV windshield on closed models, etc.
2. We know some cars came from factory as a Standard model and were upgraded (accessorized) by the dealer to Deluxe model. Others were upgraded slightly at owner's choice using '31 or other year accessories. (for example single or double bar bumpers, Viking or Eagle rad cap).
3. We know some '31's were assembled outside USA with slightly different components, for example Canadian Chevs had double beaded fenders and a double bracket on front fenders, a variance from USA cars. Down-under models even more changes.
4. We also know some cars during the depression era particularly in the international market, made use of leftover inventory of 1930 parts, such as the hood on my '31 Chev which is a '31 hood but has original '30 hood latches. I understand some early '31 Canadian Chevs may also have come with '30 exterior door handles (mine did). These types of variations are impossible to prove, but enough of them have shown up to conclude the practice likely existed.
5. Then there are the anomalies which show up every now and then, such as the wiper ? raised here. The notion is that at some point in the car's manufacture (or later by an owner), someone carefully filled in the wiper control rod hole and used a '30 system with a valve under edge of dash. There does not appear to be any rational explanation for why the factory would do this (i.e control rods were not likely a supply problem), unless they had an inventory of leftover '30 wiper motors that they wanted to use up. In that case would they use brass to fill hole?(not likely). So is it possible? Obviously there are skeptics, and there are believers. Can it be proven one way or the other, likely not.

The great thing about this site is there is room for all opinions, and in the end it is the choice of all owners to draw their own conclusion from all the advice offered, and get on with their project, with some questions likely never being 100% verifiable. If an owner is satisfied after hearing and assessing all authoritative viewpoints that his car is original, then he should leave it alone.

I love the Joes, the Snobs, the Skeptics, the BS'ers, and especially the old Farts (being one myself), and encourage all posters to be tolerant of everyone's viewpoint (except where unwarranted, unhelpful attacks occur).