VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 '28 Body to frame cushion matl

Good day,

I purchased a roll of Gary Wallace's body to frame cushion material (nylon webbing). Should it be installed between the frame rail and side apron or between the wood and side apron? My terminology for the side aprons refers to the long piece of sheetmetal piece between the frame rail and running board.

I am having a challenging time assembling the wood kit for the car since it has been apart for 40 years and most of the original wood is gone. I have purchased several books but the details for assembling the wood and metal brackets for the business coupe is rather vague.

One thing I have learned from this site is to add friction tape or roof felt between the metal brackets and wood to eliminate squeaks. What about between the sheet metal, i.e. quarter panels and wood?

The webbing goes between the frame and the bottom of the splash apron.

As to the tape, your call.

Gidday Fellas,

Slowbowtie - We are doing this in a couple of weeks time once I have finished installing the timberwork into the rear tub we are lifting it all off the chassis again in one piece and laying in the double sided adhesive tape....

Now to your question of between the Valance or the timber and having given this no thought at all except when I just read your post I would say, and I am only having a logical guess... but I would lay it ontop of the valance as you would want the valance to sit very flat on the chassis Yes / No anyone?? I might be wrong??

Chassis - Valance - webbing - main rail

Good question just the same and I wish you well....

Sorry but that no makes sense or if it does then I am lost??

Frame as in timber frame of car or frame as in metal chassis of car??

Gents- Thanks for the quick reply. Staring at the bottom, car frame, cushion material, apron then wood...

This is where I was confused because I expect squeaks between the wood and metal apron?

slowbowtie you have it correct. Others are still thinking. I suppose they don't know what a frame is.

While I do not know what is recommended by the Fisher Body people for '28, the Fisher body manual for '31 instructs that the shim/pad at the front body mount be clear of the side apron altogether i.e. do not squeeze that part of apron at all. For '31 the front of apron is secured to fender etc, so needs a bit of flexibility to move, and therefore has a cutout to enable it to clear the shim at the front mounting point. '31 Fisher Body manual indicates the that the side apron should lay firm against the top of the steel frame at the rear mounting point, with the shim/pad on top of the apron, and then the wood sill uppermost, creating a 4 part sandwich (from bottom, steel frame,side apron,shim,wood sill). When final fitting the apron and fenders for '31, this rear mounting bolt may need to be backed off temporarily to ensure all components align. Again, I am not sure '28 follows same routine.

Slow Bowtie,

You got it right.My money is on you.

Cheers

Ray

Yes OK so I was wrong but that's exactly how I thought it would be so that the fexiable apron sits tight and level on the steel frame and under the webbing....

I'm still doing mine like that anyway as it makes more sense to me..

In Oz we call the metal frame a chassis..... to me a frame is the timber body work of the car, but then again some think we are a dumb [bleeped] bunch of [bleeped], but at least we can admit to being wrong and apologize when needed.........

Hi Grant,

Thanks for your feedback and comments...In the end we all want our vintage cars to be correct and represent our best work. We may call parts of the car by different names, but in the end, we all learn from each other!

Now admittedly I don't own a 28 Chev, mine is a 490 but I do own a Hudson of similar year and Monty the thought of installing the webbing above the splash apron makes no sense to me. When you wash the car the webbing and opening you have created are going to retain water and dirt which is going to perpetually drain out on the splash apron. Eventually as body movement occurs the paint will wear off the body and splash apron and you will have rust. To my way of thinking you want there to be no gap and have a thin layer of silicone cover the crack.

"Not really a case of someone being an uneducated male donkey stalk of bananas, male sexual apparatus, but more so of just some differences in global orientation!" I would venture to say. anyway when I would describe the two vehicular parts in question, I may be pleased to say Metal Chassis Frame for the parts supporting the engine , the drive line suspension and the rear end...Whilst discribing the Wooden framed cabin frame, as being the wooden structure supporting the sheet metal outer cabin panels, the doors, windows, cowl, and the seating equiptment. Of course that isn't what I call the parts down here in Texas. I usually just call it all of that "old timey car crap"!

Hey Mr Mack,

Can we call for a translater. Aussie language is one thing, USA is another, but throwing in Texas, now that is confusing me.


Nuh, only joking, fully understand, well I think so, well let me get back to you on that. I will consult my learned friends below.



Cheers

Ray

G'day fellas,

Yep I got it wrong after a discussion about metal on metal and wood on metal last night with a mate.....Live and learn I guess

Yep Mr Mack I don't know what the hell you are waffling on about again, Ya better spit that month full of Texian tobacco out and start make sense my friend... "uneducated male donkey stalk of bananas, male sexual apparatus" WTF is that all about

If it ain't you waffling on, then it's Antique swinging a few blows when all the dust has settled

There ya go, all good light hearted banter and said in good fun...

Hi there,
I think that we need a picture of a section of the car, with all the various parts identified with arrows pointing to the relevant bits...

A picture is worth a thousand words...

So who is up to doing the deed, must be computer literate and love paint or something else to demonstrate their computer capability...come on guys or gals, have a go, I cant, I'm too old, a bit like a piece of wood, too short at one end ...

Peter

"The elastic fabric surrounding the circular steel frame which through successive revolutions bears you onward through space has lost its pristine rotundity" My dad always tried that one on me! Any translators?

Thanks for all the feedback. I will try to post some pictures since I did a trial assembly on the right side late last night. The webbing makes the most sense installed between the steel frame rail and side apron. This method allows the webbing to run straight along the top of the frame rail. If you install the webbing between the apron and wood, it bunches up if you want it to follow the curvature of the wood sill.

As mentioned in a previous posting, having an absorbent material between the wood and side apron would just accelerate rust and wood rot. Confirmed and decision made, the webbing is being installed between the steel frame rail and side apron.

Good work Slow Bowtie.

You have done the job in the correct order, and more importantly, wont have to worry asbout it for another 50 plus years. I will put it in my diary to send you a reminder in 2062.

Heh heh heh

Cheers

Ray

hi there,
I am concerned as to what type of " Webbing" you are going to use?
there are many modern types of material that would far exceed the type used 70 year ago and probably last almost forever.

Neoprene springs to mind, very tough and is used on extensively today's "Morgans" in the production line, even on their Aero super-car.
Kevlar has all the quality's that you need too. None of these absorb moisture.

well that's my 2 bob's worth.....
Peter

The original webbing was similar to the material that belts for machinery were made of. It is available from most of the vendors.

Yes,

But does the original type webbing absorb moisture, thats the question?

Regards

Ray

Don't worry yourself a bit about it, I made it all up after reading some stuff over at one of them high-tone audiemobile sites!

Hi Mr Mack,

one of them high-tone audiemobile sites

Now this has a very technical ring to it all the same. I must use it somewhere.

Cheers

Ray

I hesitated to enter the discussion so late in the game. Was away on a VCCA 4 cylinder tour so had limited time and access while gone.

Originally for both the '28 and '31 Chevrolets fabric pads were only used between the wood and metal at each body bolt location. They were used primarily to prevent squeaks when the two parts moved. Same as the fabric material between wood and metal certain places on the bodies and felt between floor boards and wooden frame and cross pieces.

It is common for people to use a single piece of webbing the entire length of the body between body and metal frame during a restoration. If so there will be places where it will not be retained well if between wooden sill and top of splash apron. Of course that depends on the shims and spacers used to adjust the body. The webbing will fit between the splash apron and metal frame rail but will serve no real purpose except to raise the splash apron making the joint between the front fender and splash apron a little more tricky to get to look right. If you think that an insulator is necessary between those two metal parts then a thin piece of roofing felt is much better than the webbing and cheaper too.

Like Chipper, I've been away as well.
When I had to change the chassis after an accident in my 28 coach, I too had to replace the webbing. I used different thicknesses of nylon, about 4" x 2" as packers, you must use these to set the body up correctly (for Grant, especially in a tourer to make sure your doors align correctly).
I didn't use any webbing at all, just the spacers so as no water can be ratained. Also when I washed the car I hosed out between the body and valance.
The reason I did this is I've seen heeps of valance panels rusted out to the shape of the body on cars that I've dismantled.
Chris