VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Can I convert my 29' from 6 to 12 volt?

Is it possible to convert my 1929 Chevrolet to 12 Volts? If so what will I need? I know I can use the same starter and have to get an alternator but is the a certain model alternator that will fit the car better then others? I will need new light bulbs through out, condenser for the distributor, ignition coil and horn. Will I need a new amp meter. Is there an easier way to do this? Like something that would step down a 12 volt battery to 6 volt and then step up the voltage going back into the battery to 12 volts for charging?
Thanks,
Paul

Paul,
First question is why? :confused: What do you need or want that the six volt system does not do? :confused: :confused:

Chipper, maybe he wants to play his new Dolly Parton CD. Or hook up his Dixie air horns and his new 40 channel CB,,,,Come on Back Good Buddie, gotcha ears on?

and Yes all things are possible thru J.C. Whitney and a sackful of greenbacks!
the easyiest way is with a "One wire 12v alternator kit", You should check with one of the street rod sites for details.

Want stereo in your car? Get a boombox or whatever else that does not have to be connected to the car.

Unless you are installing a 12 volt refrigerator to keep your beer in, leave the car 6 volts if you are planning on keeping your car stock. Now, if you really want to go 12 volts, pull the engine and stick in either a 327 or a 350 V-8 with air conditioning, CD player and changer, cruise control, remote doors and mirrors, a power sky roof, Corvette rear end, Mustang front end, power windows, power door locks, power bucket seats, overdrive and etc. Now you need 12 volts!

I cannot believe you people. I asked one simple question and get verbally assaulted. I have a Ford 8n tractor that was converted and it starts 10 times easier. I don't run the car 12 months out of the year, it would be nice to take the battery out when I am not using it and put it in another car or piece of machinery the months it would normally be sitting. It gets discouraging to go and start the car after it has been sitting for months or even a year and have to keep buying batteries every time. As far as keeping it stock, I am not permanently altering the car, just making it a little more modern. Was I wrong to have the engine balanced when I had it rebuilt? I guarantee it runs smoother then any of your "stock" engines. People convert there Model A Fords to 12 volts all the time and don't get blasted for it, what are your problems?
Paul

You would need to replace almost all ele. components. Than if you have an old wiring harness will that handle things safely without shorting out? I think charging the battery once or twice a year would be simpler solution.On my 6 volt. cars that sit for months at a time I get 7 to 8 years out of a Farm&Fleet battery.But once a battery goes completely dead it never seems to take a good charge again.Mine will keep a charge for at least 6 to 8 months(thru our long winters)

For me, converting to 12 volts would take more time and would be a lot of work without much improvement. I keep a 1 amp charger on mine, have no trouble starting '31s.

I will go along with JYD on why you could need a 12 volt system. not for starting a well tuned Chevrolet straight six of the vintage we are talking about here (29-32.)
But if you want something to run a CB, CD etc. consider useing one of those multi-purpose 12 volt boosters with a sealed 12 volt battery, with 12 vdc outlets, booster cables, air compressor thouble light and a 110V AC converter, they sell for around $80 at wholesale clubs like Sam's
Any way for around $350 you can convert your car to 12 volts with an single wire alternator and bracket that is easy for a novice to hookup and for the various voltage dropping devices for the gauges and the six volt accessories (radio and heater)and the needed 12 volt bulbs.

and if I had a Ford I would probably convert it to a Chevy 350 with a 700R4, a Pacer front end and a makeover!

My 12 volt booster pac is my traveling security blanket .First I can run my CB radio off it all week,plug in cell phone if necessary, and use it to jump friends cars if necessary.Even had to use it at our Janesville Meet on my own car when my battery went dead due to volt. reg. problems.I did see a combination 6 volt 12 volt battery advertised in Old Cars but didn't pay much attention to it .If you don"t get the publication let me know and I'll get back to you.

You guys are missing my point. I don't want to run a stereo or a cell phone I just want to use a regular 12 volt battery and be able to trough any old 12 volt battery in the car and not have to go out and buy a 6 volt that I can only use in this car. I think I will just go out, buy a new 6 volt battery and a Deltran Battery Tender Plus Portable Charger and be done with it. This should solve my problems.
Paul

Jy4$ We were looking at the trouble of converting the system to 12volts and the expense ( the only one that profits is the vendor that sells you on the idea) to the tune of $350 or so plus all the time you will spend getting it right versus any performance gain you may see. You can get rid of the voltage regulator and generator. The expense of a good six volt battery vs. a 12 volt battery isn't much of a factor. I buy mine from a tractor supply store along with the heavy duty 00 cables a 6 volt system requires.
Maybe you didn't see our points, Eh?

Hate to yell whoa !! in this here mudhole but, easy Dog !! I agree with most of the comments but it's his car and he can do with it as he wishes. Me no I wouldn't make the change, the cost far out weighs the gain in this change over. But to answer your question Y E S you can convert your 6v sys to a 12v sys if you desire and wish to fork over the bucks to make the switch. Best of luck with what ever you decide to do.

Finally the voice of reason. Thank you 29chevy. I have decided to leave it 6 volt and keep one of those fancy battery tenders on it. I have asked a few questions on this board and read responses of other peoples questions and have seen nothing but sarcastic arrogant responses. This is really sad. When I found this web site I thought it was great and now I am not so sure about that any more. We are all here to help each other out in our common interest, not to be on our high horses. I have been on other boards concerning my other hobbies and have never been treated like this. Can't we all just get along?

Hello junkyard4$,
I live in Australia,and saw your question in regard's to changing your '29 chev to 12 volts.
I have done quite a few 12 volt conversion's on both chev"4"s,"6"s and a few other makes,including "OAKLAND","OLDSMOBILE",amongst others.
I changed my 1928 Chev truck to 12 volt in 1983,and have not had any problems since.It is far easier out here to get 12 volt parts versus 6 volt parts.
The generator is fairly easy to change,either leaving it as a third brush generator,or going all the way,and changing it to a shunt type generator and fitting a regulator to control the output.You don't have to fit an alternator,as the you can make the new generator practically identical to the original one.
With the starter motor,I've found a fairly common late 50's to early 60's starter motor that I can use the armature with a few modifications in the original chev housing.With winding new field coils to compensate for the higher voltage,you can have a starter motor that will crank a chev "4" or "6" like it's using an 8 volt battery.It is nowhere as savage when it crank's the motor as standard starter is when using a 12 volt battery.
If you would like any specific information,you can email me at:wizardsmith278@bigpond.com

Best regard's,
Kevin Smith.

Junkyard4$ - if you decide to keep the 6 volt system (as I did) I found the BatteryMinder by VDC Electronics an excellent battery desulfator/maintainer. I now own two. One 12 volt for my boat and garden tractor batteries and a 6 volt for my 1930 Chevy. Go to www.vdcelectronics.com and read up on them before you buy any other charger/maintainer. It is new patented technology that I find amazing. Just my two cents worth. By keeping my 6 volt battery fully charged all the time with this unit - it really whips over nice - like a 12 volt!!
Cheers

I suspect that the '12v versus 6v' issue is one of those hot-buttons. Kinda like asking, "Can I change the shifter in my Ferrari so that it is smoother -- like in a Porsche?" The answer may be "yes" or it may be "no" but a flame-fest is guaranteed.
I have pondered the '6v versus 12v' issue and except for minor inconveniences, which can be mitigated with planning, the only big issue is that one can't easily get a jump-start from anyone, when out on the road.
Another issue is that P=IE. That is, power still equels current times voltage. To get the same power in a 6 volt system, one needs twice the current -- which means bigger wires (although the current-to-gauge transform isn't linear). FWIW, that is why extremely high voltage is used for power transmission lines: Smaller (read: cheaper and lower loss) wires.
Only 4 more work days until the weekend! Yipee!
rick

Rick -

I like your concilatory tone. The concept of modifying an antique car to various degrees becomes a personal point of view that's been debated before in previous forums.

Paul, the comments are really just opinions thrown out as good natured ribbing. You could look at past postings and see what worse things these guys say to each other...!

To the Junkyard Dog's credit, for example, he can take it as equally as he dishes it. (Just don't second guess his information, or you'll end up... )

Once you explained what you want to accomplish, I think that made it easier to answer your question than what it initially seemed to imply. I hope you found the responses helpful.

JY4$, I am sorry you took our remarks for sarcasium or however it is spelled, But I beleive my first post to you, my first post was directed to Chip, covered your question, however you may not agree, It wasn't sarcaustic, I was serious when I said you can change to 12 volts and J.C. Whitney is a source for an inexpensive one wire alternator, which is the way I would go, first because it is simple to do, it does away with some of the more problematic features of the generator - voltage regulator system. Second once you do have your car modified by useing a 12 volt system you more than likely will want to add some 12 volt accessorys and the higher output of the alternator will be very useful.
As for the other members replys, consider where we are, this is a VCCA owned , adminstrated and moderated site. We for a major part just being protective of the VCCA mission.
It would be another matter should we go to a site advocating the modification of Chevrolets to make them safer, more comfortable to drive with larger engines new electronic accessorys etc. and advocate the VCCA mission, but we don't.

This is our "turf" and we want everyone to realize that without any apology given.

You are welcome here at any time and welcome to ask any question of us, take some of our answers with a grain of salt, please, and enjoy the old car hobby.

I guess I was upset because I was excited to see that someone replied and might be of some help but then got really disappointed to read useless thoughtless comments. Believe me I am the biggest advocate on being original but when it comes to being frustrated all the time I will change something for the better without permanently altering the car.
Paul

Paul, Many of us are also too eager to be flippent with our fellow hobbyist, I do apologize for that. And for any hard feelings I may have caused toward this site, I think you will find us to be honest and as helpful as possible,.

Now if I can just bring some of the regular scrondrels here to that kind of a peaceloveing attitude!

As you may have observed a couple of the ones from the Upper Left Coast, not to mention any names have been on my case lately. I think they are just envious of my good luck to be living in the LONE STAR STATE! Eh? Donald and JYD

Paul wrote, "I will change something for the better without permanently altering the car. " and I think that this comment is key. I have been a builder and restorer of old and really expensive cars for years. My credo has always been, 'Never make irreversible changes.' In this thread, one could easily 'upgrade' to a 12v system but I would argue that since these cars are irreplaceable statements of history, that the changes should always be reversible AND that the change be documented. That is obviously my opinion and suggestion, not a requirement or sermon.
I just replaced al the interior wiring bits within the headlight pods of my '30 sedan. The original wire's insulation crumbled away with the slightest touch. I used new, modern wire for the replacements -- observing the correct gauge and insulation color. If I were changing the wiring where it showed, I would have searched for period-correct, cloth insulated wire. That was NOT what was used in the headlights from new, so the issue is moot.
I guess my only council is to recommend that we respect these cars as physical history and recognize that they do really have a value to us all that is greater than the value to any one of us.
Sorry to get philosophical but I feel strongly that classics and antiques are quite important. If we choose to forget them, we might just end up thinking that Honda Accords are important! :-P

rick

Very good point, Rick. I also used modern wiring in my '32 restoration with the intention of eventually upgrading to historically correct cloth wiring when I have the time and money. It was cheaper to make mistakes on modern wiring than mess up with the cloth wrapped stuff while I was doing some "hands-on" learning. I also discreetly installed a 6V electric fuel pump under my rear passenger fender as a back up to the manual pump (which, as the JYD has insightfully informed us in the recent past, tends to have diaphragm failures from exposure to modern gasoline )

As you pointed out, these measures have not physically affected the car, cannot be easily seen, and is readily removable. Just like the recent forum on adding seat belts, the use of small, discreet, and reversible additions that help ensure reasonable drivability, reliability, or safety should be readily acceptable, and don't necessarily move you into the "other side" of street rodding and the like.

Hey guys,
I just got back from talking to my neighbor who works on Model A Fords. He has converted model A's to 12 volt and you won't believe how easy it is. Without a regulator the original generator will put out about 18 volts. He takes the regulator and solders the connections together so the power bypasses the regulator and puts out the full voltage, under the dash so you can't see it he installs a Transpo model D-100 electrical cut-out inline on the wire going to the ammeter. This regulates the voltage to 12 volts. He then replaces the coil with a 12 volt, all the light bulbs and inside the horn solders a resistor in line to reduce the voltage to 6 volts and that's it. The Transpo model D-100 electrical cut-out cost him $20 but the problem is that a friend got it for him when he was in Florida and now cannot find a place to get more. Has anyone heard of these and where to get more of them?
Paul

Just thinking out loud - but if you don't want to permanently alter the car - and remember I am just thinking out loud - could you not just leave the starter and operate it on 12 volts - remove the generator and replace it with the one wire alternator and feed the output to the "in" side of the ammeter. Then take all your other circuits - gas guage, coil, lights etc and hook them all together to one common terminal, which I will call "A" . Then take a ballast resistor of sufficient size to reduce the voltage from 12v to 6v and mount it under the car for good ventilation. Then hook up "A" to one side of the ballast and the other side of the ballast to the "out" of the ammeter guage. In this way you can keep all your 6v stuff original and with the quick change of the generator for the alternator and the removal of the ballast resistor - you are original again.
What do you think guys - would it work?????