VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions 2nd Request-Please Clarify Board Policy Statement

Good Morning or Afternoon depending on your part of the world. Whilst reading through the Board Policy, which I agreed with, may I ask for a clarification on two areas related to the ownership and sole purpose paragraph.

Question 1
Owner:This forum is owned and managed by the Vintage Chevrolet
Club of America - a non-profit organization.

I was under the impression that the site was owned by Bill Barker, who has done a great job for Chev enthusiasts over the years

Question 2
It's sole purpose is to promote the sharing of information about restoration and the operation of vintage Chevrolets.

May I seek clarification on the meaning of Vintage, being either

A. Original / Restored. Body and running gear as per year of manufacture. Example being a Chev 4 as per the year made, either original or restored, but with original specification engine, gear box,chassis, front and rear axles, brakes and body.

B. Modified.Body as per year of manufacture, but with chassis and running gear true to the year of manufacture with slight modifications,so as not to change the overall aged appearance of the car. Example being later model brakes or gear box, or internal engine mods.

C. Hot Rod. A modern chassis, engine, gearbox, and brakes under a few or the majority of original style body panels. Example being a V8 and gearbox with disc brakes all round on a modern or fabricated chassis, with an original cowl doors and rear tub.

Thank You and may I wish all who view the VCCA site a happy and safe Easter period.

Gidday Fellas,

Veryrusty52 - Still waiting I see :( I think the curtains have been lowered and they flicked off the lights on ya gig

"Ladies and Gentlemen, the VCCA have left the building"

My Thoughts on this request:
The VCCA is a non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation and restoration of all years of Chevrolets. This site is the official web site of VCCA. Bill, among others monitor/moderate the site to the benefit of all contributors.
"Vintage" is a term broadly used to refer to a vehicle older than XX years, also sometimes referred to as "Antique". In my jurisdiction, Vintage or Antique applies to cars over 30 years old at the Registry of Motor Vehicles, regardless of whether they are "original" or "heavily modified".
While the objective of the VCCA is the preservation and restoration of Chevrolets, there are clearly extremes of opinion/thinking on just what this means. To the purist at one end, it implies doing what ever one can to retain a vehicle as close as possible to original, in both appearance and original equipment. At the other end may be someone who loves the look of a vintage Chevrolet but wants to "modernize" it dramatically, including the retro-mods and hod rodders (or even the ratrods!). Since even these extremes "preserve" to some extent the Chevrolet (admittedly ratrods are hard to swallow by some purists), their efforts are in some manner in keeping with the thrust of the clubs mandate. In the middle are all degrees of preservation/restoration, all of which it is hoped adhere to one common principle; The owners are certified car nuts who love the hobby and have tolerance for all other certified car nuts. So lets just enjoy this great hobby.

I think Gunsmokes thoughts are written out about as good as any I've ever seen or heard on this whole matter.

My "thoughts" would essentially just echo his. It's perfectly clear the VCCA "mission statement" is all about the preservation, restoration and the operation of vintage
Chevrolets. It naturally follows that Chevy Chat II is all about sharing of information along the same lines.

On the other hand, there's no doubt that many VCCA members, who are loyal and involved with serving the club as officers, volunteers, etc, have really nice cars that wouldn't do well in VCCA judged events.

As Gunsmoke summarized (in general) the really important aspect is "we're all car guys and we should we be tolerant of our fellow Chevy-Nuts."

It seems obvious we all enjoy the heck out of this great site and appreciate Bill Barker's untiring efforts to make CCII the great site that it is.

(As they say, my two cents....)

Bill.

Gidday Fellas,

Yep spot on Gunsmoke, I agree and very well written.

BUT in fairness to veryrusty52 first question regarding the ownership of the site, no moderators have chipped in and laid those cards out on the table for all to read....

He is only asking a question which I think is a fair thing to do.

The site is owned by the VCCA. Bill Barker is the volunteer who does the majority of work keeping ChatII updated and functioning. Several other volunteers help Bill to the extent of their expertise and available time. There are plenty of opportunities for others to help too.

Thanks Chipper,

You answered the first part of what I have been asking, and I appreciate that.

In relation to my second question, can I get a moderators explanation on

Question 2
It's sole purpose is to promote the sharing of information about restoration and the operation of vintage Chevrolets.

May I seek clarification on the meaning of Vintage, being either

A. Original / Restored. Body and running gear as per year of manufacture. Example being a Chev 4 as per the year made, either original or restored, but with original specification engine, gear box,chassis, front and rear axles, brakes and body.

B. Modified.Body as per year of manufacture, but with chassis and running gear true to the year of manufacture with slight modifications,so as not to change the overall aged appearance of the car. Example being later model brakes or gear box, or internal engine mods.

C. Hot Rod. A modern chassis, engine, gearbox, and brakes under a few or the majority of original style body panels. Example being a V8 and gearbox with disc brakes all round on a modern or fabricated chassis, with an original cowl doors and rear tub.

My reason for asking is I am confused, and rather than think the board has double standards, an answer will suffice. I cant see how a site can include Hot Rods or Rat Rods as Vintage Chevs to preserve, while at the same time moderators have critiscised people for having the wrong colour engine paint on a Chev 4, or like that poor bloke a few months back who was seeking help on aquiring a tool kit for his 28, was set upon by the moderators because of his interpretation of original versus restored.

So how can a Hot Rod or Rat Rod that has no more Chev than a radiator surround or bonnet, be classified as a Chev. I would have thought the VCCA was in favour or preserving un molested Chevs and people with Hot or Rat Rods would be covered by another club. I am sure that an original or restored Chev 4 complete with wooden spoke wheels would not be welcome at a custom or Rat Rod club.

Thank you.

I see that request as a "slippery slope" and decline to offer a post the might in any way be deemed as being "official". I am only a volunteer that helps the site as best I can.

Chipper

Who would you suggest as the right person to approach to use the word "offical"

Firm solid ground is always better than a slippery slope.

I've been a little busy the past couple of days, but have been trying to follow this on my cell phone.

I don't understand the ultimate purpose of this discussion.

1) If you want to know what the VCCA "stands for" go to the official web site at http://vcca.org

2) The Chat site is offered by the VCCA as a "public service" for Chev enthusiasts to get together and discuss the "preservation and restoration" of Chevrolets. The age of the cars is not relevant since the club recognizes Chevrolets of ALL YEARS. They choose to only JUDGE vehicles currently 25 years or older.

So we're back to the intent of the definition of original, modified or hot rod. While "hot rods" are not our primary interest, if they are REGISTERED by competent authorities as a Chevrolet, then they may have an interest in this forum. Naturally original cars are our primary focus, but since so few of them are still around, then "restored" cars tend to be the majority of our population. And -- over the years, a lot of them contain seen, and unseen, modifications. This is why modification discussions occur here - even though it's NOT our primary purpose for existence.

So once again, we enjoy discussing Chevrolets, however our primary interest lie with original or restored Chevrolets.

I don't know how to make it any simpler.

Thanks Bill,

I think I have it now.

The VCCA is primarily for the preservation and Restoration of Vintage Chevs.

Except when Hot or Rat Rods come into it, you drop the words preservation and restoration, and it becomes

The VCCA tolerates the destruction and modification to convert Vintage Chevs into Hot or Rat Rods that are shilloutes only of their original model, and providing there is at least one piece of original body work on the finished car, we are happy to call it a Chev.

Clear as Mud. So if I get a 28 Chev bonnet and radiator on a T Model you will readily except it as a Chev, just as long as I can convince the DMV to register it as a Chev.

And would you feel ok if I took a perfectly good 34 Chev, chopped it, tubed it out, threw out the motor for V8 etc.

The purpose of seeking clarification was to float the idea that the clubs policy may have double standards, which can be exercised by the Moderators at their discretion.

Gidday Fellas,

Now this is getting interesting......

Veryrusty52... I think you're getting the club and the chat site mixed up a bit. There are no "officials" of the club policing the chat site. The club has "officials" that deal with issues like what you are talking about, but those issues come up at shows where judging takes place. You do not even have to own a Chevrolet to be a member in the club, so everything from streetrods to Studebakers are welcomed out to our local meetings and local events. The only time the "Officials" step in are when judging takes place, or the event is a National themed event (like the Six Cylinder Tour). The owners of "Other makes" are allowed to participate, but their cars are not. As far as this site goes, a lot of streetrodders do use it for information about the factory components on their cars. If you have a question about the '28 hood hinge on your Chevy hood, we likely have some answers. We even have a section on early speedsters, as they were mainly built out of stripped down factory components. However, questions about how you're going to stuff that 302 Ford under the hood will be referred to other more appropriate sites. The best way to answer any other questions is to try a years membership out, and read all about it in our monthly magazine, the G&D.

Hi Brewster,

Thanks for the reply. Nothing mixed up from where I see things.
The moderators and Bill Barker, the Administrator of this site, operate and manage the site in accordance to the Board Policy Statement. Without repeating myself the policy statement quotes the sole purpose of the club, which naturally should flow on to the site and its contents. If this site is owned by the VCCA it should represent the views of the VCCA, and if not there is a case to ask why the double standards. I repect the fine work done by some Hot Rodders, their cars are a credit to them, but they are not Vintage Chevs to be preserved. In 20 years they may well be out of fashion, where a Vintage Chev will never be as they are a frozen moment in automobile history.Hot Rod Clubs and web sites for Hot Rods, Vintage Chev clubs and web sites for vintage Chevs is what I think.

Rat Rods well thats another story. I just hope I am still alive to see this fad die a natural death. Even though I have no time for the breed, again I respect the individuals right to their passion, with one exception. To make a Rat Rod you first need to kill off any chance of the doner vintage Chev ever seeing light of day as a restored car. How does THE VINTAGE CHEV RAT ROD CLUB OF AMERICA sound.

This site is seen as a voice of the VCCA, and on a regular basis I am hearing confusion and possible double standards in that voice.How can a moderator who crtiscises the colour of a Chev 4 engine that is not to his liking, or take a person to task about his interpretation of Original versus Restored then go one to answer a question about a Hot or Rat Rod.

You cant be all things to all people without sacrificing your integrity.

Veryrusty52,
I sense that there are several terms that you are having problems with. "Vintage", "preservation", "restoration", "original" among them. Unfortunately the interpretation of the meaning or each of them depends on who is doing it. Each of us have our own understanding of each term. Those may be in the same "ball park" but may not be at "home plate". Some are in the "outfield" others "second base" or other locations.


The above paragraph illustrates some of what I consider to be misconceptions. The ChatII site actually is the voice of some VCCA members and some non members. It is not the "voice of the VCCA". Moderators are just people that have volunteered to attempt to try to keep forums "on point" within some reason and generally adhere to the published policy. It is a thankless task that requires interpretation of the posts often hours or days after they are made. Since none of the moderators are on every day much less every hour some posts may deviate from "policy" and are not "moderated" for an extended time. That is just part of a volunteer activity. It is not practical to have 24/7 "moderation".

Several people have attempted to upgrade the status of moderators to represent the "official" word of the VCCA. It is just not the case.

Chipper,

Well said. I love this forum. It has proved invaluable to me as I work to keep my '23 sedan going. While I appreciate that all of us are passionate about our hobby I think we need to keep perspective. It is just a hobby and it is supposed to be fun. I don't know why some are looking for a scrap because they've been offended by a posts they misread or even the post that was perhaps hastily written and a bit terse. Come on guys, I want this still to be fun. I love reading about Monte's progress and everyone else's for that matter. I couldn't care less that someone gets snooty over the color of an engine or whatever. I just appreciate the collective wisdom of the group.

No problem Dankster.

Everything is fine, there are no problems, the world is beautiful.

How is that?

Lets just hope you feel the same way should you come accross something that you believe is not correct or an injustice.

But in the meantime, lets sweep it all undr the carpet, and hope it goes away.

With the posting moved from the forum thaty created the situation, the faceless men in grey suits will now bw hoping it falls of the edge.

Remember guys, censorship is censorship, no matter how you try to hide it. Must be nearly time to send me the PM warning me to back off

This topic has gotten off track. If you want to talk about Chevrolets, please post on the VCCA Chat site. If you want to talk about how to change the VCCA, then please join and become a member. Then you can run for office and post your opinions in the MEMBERS area. There is no value in this aimless discusson in the Public area of the Chat forum.

This thread is LOCKED.