VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1916-1922 - Model 490 Looking for 1920 490 Engine

I've been collecting parts to rebuild the 1918 engine in my '20 490 for some time. Then it dawned on me: why go to all the trouble of rebuilding the wrong engine? So I'm going to try to track down a 1920 engine to rebuild instead. Before I go the Want Ad route, does anyone on this forum know where I can locate a 1920 engine? I'm willing to buy an engine outright, or I can work a deal with my engine. I already have rebuilt rockers & shafts, resurfaced lifters and new push rods for it that won't work with a later engine.

I have two 490 engines (one is just a block and crank). I don't know how to identify the year. They are in north central Oklahoma and could possibly be taken to Chickasha. Ed Emerson

There is a date casting number on the side of the engine block, should look like 8 24 20 , which is month,day,year.

Ed - Let me know the casting numbers on the two engines. I'm really after a complete engine. Because of the significant design changes between 1918 and 1920, I can't use some of the parts out of my 1918; e.g. lifters, push rods, rockers (not sure what else). And I'd like to sell my 1918 engine complete if possible.

The block and crank assembly is 8 28 19. I could not find a corresponding number on the other engine, but under the water outlet I found a number I couldn't quite read, followed by the number 20, which was followed by the number 3. Below these numbers was what I assume is the serial number of the engine, which is 327778. This engine is still in the frame and seems to be complete, except the starter is missing. Also
I took off the rocker arms when I thought I would use them on another engine. I didn't use them and should be able to find them. Does this engine sound like something you could use? Ed

Ed - I might be interested in the complete engine but I'm going to have to do some investigation to find out what the numbers you found mean. I was hoping for a block casting date. Does anyone know if the 327778 number can be tied to a manufacturing date? Are there other numbers to look for? Are there design features unique to 1920 that might help?

I'm not sure when the change occurred but valve adjustment moved from the bottom to the top of the push rod by 1920.

The #327773 is the block casting number and the head will be # 3277772. Howevere under correction I think that that's a 1921 to 1924 block. The 1918-1920 block was casting # 967 and head # 407, or there won't be a number! Any lettering near the cast numbers will indicate the foundry.

The date quoted of 8 28 19 is for August 28th 1919 so an early 1920 model. The engine # will be found on the stamped pad on the block and on the flywheel. Engine # C60502 had a block cast date of 8 - 13 - 9.

Here is the information from the head. There is J-2-3. below the above number is cast AC. Below the AC is cast 327772. Below that number is cast the number 4. It would appear that this is the original head for this block. The number that I couldn't see before appears to be a 9. which would make a number 9 20 3. Could this be a September 20 1923 casting date?
the valve adjustment is on the rocker arms and there is a replaceable cap that goes between the pushrod and the rocker arm. It appears that the engine had an oil gauge, but not a sight glass like my Monroe has.

I went to Houston, Texas to buy this engine, under the impression that I could use it in my Monroe. It might work in some Monroes , but it didn't seem it would fit my 96" wheelbase roadster very well. Then I found a Monroe parts car in Charleston, South Carolina, so I gave up on using the 490 engine altogether

OK Ed. It appears that you have a 1920 block and crank and a mostly complete 1923 engine. If that's correct, I would have to find a matching 1920 head and all the guts to build a complete 1920 engine. I could steal parts from the '23 engine to build up the '20 - but I'd hate to part out your '23 engine with matching block and head.

I assume the '20 block and crank are in rebuildable condition. So I could grab those from you and go fishing for the rest of the parts. And/or I can keep looking for a complete '20 engine.

Hmmm. I'll send you a PM to continue this discussion.

J - 2 -3 would be October 2nd 1923 and that would more-or-less tie in with the September 20th 1923....but I have never heard of a casting foundry with initials 'AC'. Flint Motor Plant were using 'SPC' = Saginaw Products Company ('cloverleaf' symbol) and 'CWC' = Campbell, Wyant, & Canon Foundry Co., Muskegon we know. Also 'SF' = Standard Foundry and Machinery Co. This could be a replacement casting from an independent company but the dates seem to tie-in very conveniently!

Would it be possible that some other foundry outside the system had made some temporarily deliveries???

In Norway we have examples of temporarily part suppliers adding to the usual sources.

Ed - Since I didn't receive a reply from my PM to you, I decided to post a VCCA Chat Want Ad for a '20 engine.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I wouldn't want to part out your complete 1923 engine. I might be interested in the 1920 block and crank if I can't find a complete engine. But I'd have to find a 1920 head and all the other missing parts. I assume the block is rebuildable. If you have a photo, please post or send to: dakellogg@gmail.com.

I'm sorry, but your email didn't get to me. I watched for it pretty faithfully, and rechecked everything tonight, It's just not here. If you would like to try again, my address is elemerson@yahoo.com. That should be the what is listed in my profile. I'm afraid I'm one of the people who will never figure out how to post pictures online, so I can't help you there. I work out of town, so it's kind of hard to get things done. But next monday, the 27th, I have a dental appointment so I will be in town. On that day I will have an opportunity to take the block to the mechanic that built my Sterling engine, and have him check it over for the suitability of
being rebuilt. That way we will have a better idea of what we are dealing with. Ed

Ed - I'll email you.

Don

A local machinist checked out Ed's engine block and crank, and confirmed they are usable. Since I haven't found a complete 1920 engine yet, one avenue would be to locate all the other parts to build up Ed's block and crank. To get started, does anyone know of a reusable 1920 head?

i have a lot of 490 part from 1917- 28 george 406-5432591

George - As mentioned in my PM, I'm looking for a 1920 engine to replace the 1918 motor in my '20 490. So, starting with the complete engine, what are the numbers cast into the block and head? Should be numbers like: Block# H2P6 961, Date Code 5620 (May 6, 1920); Head# 407 7, Date 52820 (May 28, 1920). There should also be a serial number stamped into the edge of the flywheel.

If it's not a 1920 engine, I have a line on a 1920 block and crank, so I'd need a '20 head and all the other parts to build an engine. What are the numbers on the other heads? Do you enough parts to build an engine?

Don