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VCCA on engines #231664
01/22/12 01:33 AM
01/22/12 01:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 25
Texas
B
BigBlockKelly Offline OP
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Some where along the way my car lost its original engine. I got one out of another car of the same year and model. But the date on the block is off.
What is the point deduction for a original engine but the casting date is later than the build date of the car?

Re: VCCA on engines [Re: BigBlockKelly] #231666
01/22/12 01:38 AM
01/22/12 01:38 AM
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The Great State of TEXAS
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As of right now there is no deduction for the correct displacement engine that looks like the original. So in your case no deduction. It may change sometime in the future but not likely any time soon.


How Sweet the roar of a Chevy four!
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: BigBlockKelly] #231676
01/22/12 03:03 AM
01/22/12 03:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 25,159
West Allis,Wi.
Chev Nut Offline

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The VCCA doesn't go by build dates.


Chevgene
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: Chev Nut] #231678
01/22/12 03:09 AM
01/22/12 03:09 AM
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Eagle Point, Oregon
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The VCCA doesn't go by the cowl tag information either!

laugh wink beer2


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"If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: Chipper] #241620
05/01/12 07:59 PM
05/01/12 07:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27
Texas
3
31rob55 Offline
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What about a documented replacement with a not original engine?
I have a 1931 sedan. The engine was replaced in 1937 with a 1934 block & internals. The head (?), manifolds, and carburetor are from the original '31, as are the starter, generator and ancillary stuff. The fuel pump and (vacuum advance) ignition are '34.
I have a copy of the original 1937 biil-of-sale for this (warranty? repair)- at a whopping $135! It specifically lists the old and new engine numbers, presumably for registration (Texas, which used the engine number as the vehicle ID).
My car's probably never going to be VCCA judge-worthy, but that's been my standard as i restore (20+ years in progress, so far). I'm not going to replace this engine (it works great), but I'm curious.

Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 31rob55] #241651
05/01/12 11:53 PM
05/01/12 11:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
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Eagle Point, Oregon
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Points will be deducted for your engine since it is the wrong year and the wrong cubic inches.

laugh wink beer2


The Mangy Old Mutt

"If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 31rob55] #243619
05/24/12 07:51 PM
05/24/12 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,884
Vancouver, Washington
32confederate Offline

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Rob,

How did they make the 34 vacumm advance work with a 31 updraft carb? Just wondering since you really need a 33 or later downdraft carb that has a take off for it to work.


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Bruce S. DeFord
VCCA Judging Committee Chair

The Great American Value for 1932
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 32confederate] #243637
05/25/12 12:49 AM
05/25/12 12:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 25,159
West Allis,Wi.
Chev Nut Offline

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1931 head will not fit on a 1934 engine.
It will fit on a 1933 engine. The fuel pump attaching bolts are straight accross on a 1934 and one higher than the other on a 1933 block.

Last edited by Chev Nut; 05/25/12 12:59 AM.

Chevgene
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 31rob55] #243638
05/25/12 01:00 AM
05/25/12 01:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 16,701
The Great State of TEXAS
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The Great State of TEXAS
31rob55,
A '31 head may bolt up to a '34 block but will not provide proper cooling as several of the coolant passages are either blocked or different sizes. Are you sure it is a '34 block or a '31 block cast in 1934?


How Sweet the roar of a Chevy four!
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: Chipper] #243698
05/25/12 09:13 PM
05/25/12 09:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27
Texas
3
31rob55 Offline
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31rob55  Offline
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Texas
Well, I've researched more, and it's a '34 head. I had mistakenly thought that since the rocker cover and manifolds are '31, the head must have been.
The block is casting # 473741-1, casting date G-7-4. The head is # 473740, casting date H-15-4. (1934 Standard).
The 886848 intake, 886842 exhaust, and Carter C-RJH-08 are definitely 1931.
The vacuum advance is tee'd at the manifold (with the wiper), and it works rather well.

Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 31rob55] #244297
06/01/12 06:01 AM
06/01/12 06:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,884
Vancouver, Washington
32confederate Offline

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Funny....because having the vacuum advance hooked like that would work very much like your wiper motor. You would always be all the way advance when the car is running. Then when you put your foot into it, you would lose your advancement like when your wiper stops. I saw someone with a 31 try this once before and all kinds of problems with it.


32 Confederate
Bruce S. DeFord
VCCA Judging Committee Chair

The Great American Value for 1932
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 32confederate] #244418
06/02/12 04:21 PM
06/02/12 04:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27
Texas
3
31rob55 Offline
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Texas
32confederate, your logic is completely correct. But your conclusion isn't.
Unlike the more common "ported vacuum source" (where the vacuum source is a small hole in the carburetor just upstream of the throttle plate), this is a "manifold source" system. Vacuum timing advance is used (in addition to mechanical timing advance - the fly-weights inside the distributor) to advance the timing at low to mid engine speed/load conditions. This provides full vacuum advance at idle. Vacuum advance disappears at wide open throttle, and the timing returns to the initial advance (if any), plus the mechanical advance. This setup allows a somewhat richer carburetor adjustment at idle, and improves driveability (but probably not economy) at low speed.
I don't know if the '34 was actually set up this same way, or if it had a ported vacuum, but this works swell with the updraft carb.
And, a side note: the original SPARK control cable is hooked up to where the ('34) "Octane Adjuster" screw arrangement was, so the Spark knob still adjusts the base timing.

(one more side note, this thread probably doesn't belong here; maybe it should be moved.)

Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 31rob55] #247604
07/02/12 01:31 AM
07/02/12 01:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,837
Columbia, MO
35Mike Offline
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35Mike  Offline
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There is a 50-50 chance your car would be judged without anyone noticing it had the wrong engine.

Mike


ml.russell@mchsi.com

Many miles of happy motoring
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 35Mike] #247606
07/02/12 01:38 AM
07/02/12 01:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,748
Issaquah, WA
Bill Barker Offline
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I'd guess more like 90-10 chance... (90% would NOT notice)

This thread has TWO topics, but, heck, let's keep it in the original one - Judging. No prob.

-bb

Re: VCCA on engines [Re: Bill Barker] #247625
07/02/12 07:17 AM
07/02/12 07:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,884
Vancouver, Washington
32confederate Offline

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Then they should not be judging in the VCCA! That is the first thing that every judge should look for before even starting on the engine. In the last 10 years I have taken the mandatory point for 3 cars with the wrong engine.


32 Confederate
Bruce S. DeFord
VCCA Judging Committee Chair

The Great American Value for 1932
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/
Re: VCCA on engines [Re: 32confederate] #247665
07/02/12 08:23 PM
07/02/12 08:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,748
Issaquah, WA
Bill Barker Offline
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Careful.... there's two different discussions going on here.

Of course, a 1931 with a 1934 engine would get marked down... probably 99.9% of the time. No argument there.

But a 1931 with a 1931 engine that was "cast" after the "build" date of the car would probably never be caught, nor marked down. Our rules allow for the same year engine in the same year car. No problem.

---Bill


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