VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 35 Master jumping out of 2nd

My 35 Master has started jumping out of 2nd gear on overrun down steep hills and it can't be held in any clues? :confused:

which transmission does it have ?

It has the normal Master series Synchro-mesh 3 speed

i dont know about down under cars but in the us in 1935 chevrolet used two differant transmissions a wm series or the saginaw three speed they will enterchange if you change the transmission cover as the tower is in a differant location . a easy way to tell is if the tower is the front of the cover it is a wm series you need to know this as we proceed with trying to fix your problem or may be to replace the transmission hope this helps

The tower is offset towards the front of the cover, buy only by about 1 1/2 inches

The most common transmission is the Toledo transmission, which it sounds like you have. This transmission is a little bigger and more round.

The Warner (WM) transmission has "WM" cast on the side of the housing and is smaller and more square looking (kind of like the Standard Transmission). Also the shifter tower comes through the floor board right at the toe board.

These transmissions are not a direct swap from car to car. The WM shifting fork guide rods will protrude through the front of the top cover and require corresponding holes in the bell housing (the common Toledo bell housing doesn't have these holes) to allow the rods to move. Also the transmission floor cover and the Floor Mat are different due to the different tower locations.

Sounds like you'll need to remove the transmission to see what is wrong.

Dave
From my experience when gearboxes start jumping out of gear there is only 2 ways to rectify, rebuild or replace.
When and if I get my 38 back together I could have a 3speed surplus to requirements but I wont promise at this stage.
If you are not in a hurry to get it back on the road I should be able to rebuild it if required parts are available.
Tony

I have some of the parts for the 1935 Master
3-speed (New of course) if you should need them.

first up the the 35 housings that i have all have the holes for the wm shift rods the housings that have the toledo gear box have plugs in the holes have to look close to detect the wm box is larger in size almost imposible to get the top on and off with it bolted to the housing which leads to why i started with trying to idenify which type is in the car . i have found a few observitations help in the begining i had this problem i took the box out over hauled new input shaft, new bearings . bushings and on installed it same problem found out piolit bearing was bad letting the input shaft drop out of center and the shaft would wobble causing it to jump out but that was in high gear which is normally the problem this one is jumping out in second what i do is take the cover off drain the oil look inside and see if there is any worn bearings or gears so that you will know if you need to find another transmission or look for parts a little pushing and pulling will tell a lot about the condition of the box but in the wm series box the top does not come off and on very easy i have got them off but never back on because of the shifting rods going in the housing and lining up the gears at the same time . hope this helps let us know what you find

I have 3 gearboxes they have all got this cast in to the RHside
590715 GM 3
Does this mean anything

It means that they are the common Toledo Chevrolet made transmission.As most of the parts fit several year Masters and they were the most common transmission parts will be easy to find.

Pushrod, if all of your bellhousings have the shift rod holes then they are all late 1935 model year parts. Chevrolet was forced to out-source the transmissions to Warner when the Toledo Transmission shop went on strike (I think it was May 1935). I believe this was the first ever strike in the auto industry.

I can't prove this , but I believe Chevrolet must have had some sort of a quanity minimum from Warner as they continued putting this transmission in the 1936 Master cars as well. I have been told that the WM transmission uses some of the same internal parts as the F*rd Transmission (also made by Warner).

:)

mike you are correct all of my 35 stuff is late 35 including the car . there is a question about the parking of windshield wipers on a 35 i read some where i thought in the service news they were parked to the outside if you look at the pictures of the cars which most were drawings they are parked both ways you may have read the same article as they said it was a first . i will keep looking thanks

Mike,
I can confirm that the WM transmission and F*rd transmissions use some of the same parts. I replaced some gears on the WM transmission in my 36 Master last year, and found exact replacements from a F*rd parts dealer.
This might sound too simple, but I think I recall that there was a "quick fix" aftermarket disk that went under the spring inside the shifter housing. That was supposed to tighten up the tension on the spring and prevent it from popping out of gear. I tried one on my WM transmission last year just to see what it would do, and it actually was too tight. I had a hard time getting it out of gear. Does the Toledo transmission have the same spring tensioner?

Dave
I put a nos gearbox in my 34 a couple of years ago and it occaisonally jumps out of 2nd on the overrun, haven't a clue why, but you only have to rest your finger on the shifter to keep it so doen't bother me. Just did a 3,200 mile trip in the old girl with no probs.
I've got a few spare unknown quantity gearboxes if you need one
Chris

I've got a couple of spare boxes and some NOS gears I bought some time ago, but it has just started this problem , I'll wait till Winter and I;ll pull it out

Jozeppi,

The WM has a Shift Lever Spring under the tower cap, it that's the spring you're talking about it's not the same part number used on the Toledo "Syncro-Mesh". My 3-15-36 Parts Book has two pages dedicated to just the WM transmission and none of the part numbers are in the normal number range as the other parts for the 35/36 cars, if you follow what I'm saying.

With out digging deeper, I would have to say there are no common internal parts between these two transmissions.

Mike B :)

If the second gear is a syncro type I would suspect a worn syncro unit.

The 1932-36 Master transmission was a syncro but nothiing like the 1937 and up.

The first thing I would do is remove the cover and check forks for wear.Then check the rails or shafts that the forks slide on.There are detent notches in the shafts and a detent ball and spring in each fork.Possible that a ball is stuck or spring broken.This all can be done by just removing the cover/and or trying another cover assembly from a spare transmission.
There is also a chance that internal parts of the transmission are worn.The syncronizer springs weak or of incorrect size,bearings loose, 2nd gear thrust washer worn,etc.
If you study the design of the cover,the inter lock plate,shafts and detents you will see that this will be a good starting point and very possibly the problem.

Thanks I'll start with the tower, I put new bearings in about 4 years ago

More on the 35 Master gearbox
Upon closer examination a gearbox I had in the shed is the same part No. but instead of GM 3 has GM 6 [on the RHS and a 7 cast in the LHS of the box why is it so??