VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1916-1922 - Model 490 Anyone found a reasonable clutch collar solution?

I see many have had to pay huge prices to get a new collar machined. Somewhere I saw that someone had flipped the collar around - does that work? If not, is having a new one machined the only solution? Better to make a new one or build up the old one up and machine it down? What about the wooden plugs?

Edit: got my old one off and both side are worn- one more than the other though.

Fred

I found a little country machine shop who used bronze rod to weld it back up and machined in down to size and drilled the holes back smooth for $80. I went out to my firewood pile found a chunk of white oak and cut my own plugs. Flipping it really won't help much because it pivots on the mounting bolts. Mine had more holes on one side than it did the other so I put the side with more holes to the side that pulls the clutch back.

The thickness ranges from 1 3/8" to 1 7/16". Since it started life a consistent 1.5" , it is worn 1/8" or less. Should it be replaced? Clutch suddenly decided not to disengage completely. Could it be another problem?

It may be gunked up with sicky old oil on the leather. I sprayed mine off with brake cleaner while someone held the pedal down and the engine running and sprayed out the leather and flywheel. The leather was sticking to the flywheel. You want your collar to be the same thickness from top to bottom to pull back like it should. any lost thickness is lost travel at the pedal.

Hmmm... Mybe that's why the previous owner said he was propping the clutch open with a 2 x 4 when storing the car. Will give the brake cleaner a try.

I'm in a small town but can't seem to find that "little country machine shop". All I'm getting are reasons it can't be done- "We will have to apply so much heat that by the time it's done, the bronze will be a mess and the holes won't line up. What are those wooden plugs?". Have a neighbor who is a former machinist but can't seem to catch him at home. Will keep trying!

You need the neat foot oil for oiling the leather and the Fuller's Earth to remove the slippery movement from the leather surface. When you want to oil the leather, use your foot to press the left pedal completely open. Put a wooden stick between the pedal and the wooden "bed" under the front seat. Spray neat foot oil in a splash or two on top and on bottom of the clutch wheel in the gap, made by the wooden stick. Remove the stick and start the engine. When running press the left pedal down and remove the pressure some times.
Check that the leather is not grabby any more. If too slippery, put some the Fuller's Earth on the surface of the leather.

If you need to buy another leather etc. ask: Bob Knaak: bobknaak@hotmail.com
He has the 5 mm ready cut and 6 suitable springs + rivets.

Here is a link to my collars:
http://s889.photobucket.com/albums/ac98/solan1916/Solan%20clutch%20collars/

Solan,

After looking at the old and new collars on your link, mine looks a lot more like the new collar. It is only worn about 1/16" on each side. If it were possible to drive a car with the kind of wear your old one had, mine should work fine as is. I must have a gunked up leather that is sticking to the flywheel. Local guys are talking $700 to fabricate, just as you paid, and no one wants to build it up/machine it down as Bob had done. I'll try cleaning the leather first.

I reinstalled the clutch collar, filling it with oil first, then flipping it around just to see what happens. Then I sprayed the leather cone with brake cleaner, let it dry and took it for a drive. Now the clutch disengages basically as it should. One thing that did change was that previously, there was a ticking noise when the clutch released, almost like tappet noise. Now it is quiet when released and makes a slight noise when depressed. The clutch is grabbier than before, but not as bad as when I first got the car. I adjusted the 6 spreaders 1/2 turn from the shoulder and put loctite on each as there were no cotter keys.Probably should have used a feeler gauge as before - but the grabbiness may be caused by lack of any neatsfoot oil on the leather rather than misadjusted spreaders.

The clutch aside, the car is doing a lot better than a week ago. No way I could drive it anywhere and turn it off then- would not restart. I put in new plugs and replaced the float needle and seat. Now it starts right up at any temp and does not leak gas when stopped as before. Brakes are working better too after adjustment.

I think a big part of the problem was my clutching technique.Never owned a non syncromesh vehicle other than a '50 Ford truck and that was 35 years ago. I'm learning that the rpms have to be very low when shifting for a smooth shift.

The old collar (in my picture) was completely worn out and could not work at all. I only used it to make a new one. You must try to oil with neat foot oil on upper and lower part of the clutch letaher. A new leather must be 5 mm thick and the smooth surface must be "inside" and rivetted to the clutch. You may find the springs to be too strong. They can be supplied by Bob Knaak, as with the leather.

You are correct about the rpms being very near idle running when shifting. When you drive up a hill and loose speed push the ignition lever upwards to give ignition nearer the top point of piston.

Today, cleaned the leather again with brake cleaner and let it dry. Clutch was a bit grabby so I adjusted the 6 spreaders, using the feeler guage this time. Much smoother - but clutch was hesitant to disengage again. I watched it happen and the cone seems to be well clear of the flywheel, but still trying to engage. Maybe it is a fraction off center and trying to drag - or one of the spreaders is? A bit of neatsfoot oil helped keep it from trying to engage, but it's still grabby. That seems to be the choice - grabby or not fully disengaged - there seems to be no acceptable compromise. The leather looks thick and unworn. Not sure where to go from here.

If the leather is thicker than 5 mm you may easily be in trouble. When I started examining the trouble in my car, the seller told me he had rcently put a brand new leather on, so why change? But that leather was 7 mm and not necessarily the right type, because the structure was more loose and did swallow due to heated oil, after 20 - 30 kilometres when the engine became warm. Then it did not disengage easily, and I broke the pinion after some driving.

Contact Bob Knaak and you may find the better solution.

I've considered replacing the leather a last resort, due to needing a special tool to compress the spring. Is that tool hard to get or make?

You will most likely have to make it and that is not all bad. You will have one the next time you need it.

If you have an Operators Manual, and a Repair Manual you will have detailed instructions to make the tool. They are available at a reasonable price in reprint.

I do have such a tool to remove the spring pressure, but I have to travel to the winter storage to take the pictures. Will be done in a weeks time, I think. It is easy to make one.

I do have the owners manual and repair manual with instructions on how to make, but a photo would definitely help. No hurry as I won't attempt this for a while.

I have checked my album but have to take the picture of the tool again. OK?

Here are pictures of the back of the clutch parts disassembled:

http://s889.photobucket.com/albums/ac98/solan1916/Pictures%20of%20the%20clutch%20section/



Coming back to the operation after picturing the tool.

As I said, no rush, won't be doing much with the car for awhile. I was a bit sad though today watching a local parade, seeing all the vintage cars, and not being able to participate due to an unpredictable clutch situation.

Finally I have taken the pictures of the tool for safely removing the parts in the clutch. Here is the link: Inner Ø of the pipe is 1 ".

http://s889.photobucket.com/albums/ac98/solan1916/Tool%20for%20removal%20of%20clutch%20parts/

You also have to use a two- or three legged puller to press the strong spring in the middle together, so it is possible to put a bolt in the gap of the pipe. When unscrewing the puller you release the pressure on the spring and can remove the other parts safely.

OK? Hope ohter here can explain this better.