VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1916-1922 - Model 490 First questions of many to come

Today the long awaited 490 arrived from Hershey, and I have had a chance to quickly look it over. Observations and questions:

1) The clutch is extremely grabby, making it almost impossible to drive. In the repair manual I see there are six "expanders" under the leather facing that can be adjusted to help prevent this. Can this only be done by removing the tranny and clutch?
Also, the previous owner was propping the clutch open with a 2x4, said it helped prevent the grabbiness when stored this way. Anything to this?

2) The RH rear door does not latch- striker plate is not quite close enough. Should I shim the striker, or adjust the body mounts as outlined in the manaul? The LH rear door latches fine.

3) My accelerator rod has nothing on the end. I see in the parts book an accelerator "button". I'm sure it's impossible to find, anyone found a good substitute?

4) It leaks quite a few drops of gas anytime the petcock is turned on. I understand it has to be kept turned off when the car is not in use, but should it leak a puddle that quickly?

5) There are almost no brakes, parking or service. They will gradually slow the car but are nowhere near safe. What should I do for replacement linings?

490Touring,

Congrats on the 490 it looks like a great car! I will try to answer some of your questions.

1. Before doing any adjustment on the clutch, see that there is some oil on it. The oil is neatsfoot oil (a leather softener). If not put some on. It will lessen the grabbyness of the clutch. It may slip a little until the excess oil comes off. That could take 5 miles or so of driving.
2. Yes, shimming sounds like a possibility. You will need to check the whole door over including looking at the hinges for what would be best to correct it.
3. That round disc would be very very hard to find. You could easily make one from a small piece of sheet metal. Approx. size would be about 3/16" thick by about 1 and 1/4" round (I could measure for exact later) with a 1/4"- 20 threaded hole. The "button" would have a slight concave to it.
4. To repair the gas valve you will need to drain the gas tank. Take the valve apart and use Timersaver compound with some oil to proper mate the brass valve. It works great and only 20 minutes or so of working them together. You can get Timesaver from Lang's Model T supplier (not sure if Gary Wallace has it). I suggest using grease that is not affected by gas to lube the valve. Lang's also has that too.
5. You should check the brake lining first. It made just be out of adjustment, but to do that you need a wheel puller. They are available from some vendors and also on eBay. If the linings are o.k., you can adjust the brakes by jacking up the rear of the car and the adjusters are usually by the left side of the trans. on the threaded rod (your '19 maybe different from my '17). Just loosen the lock nut and turn the connector to tighten. Then keeping checking the rear wheels by turning them till they start to drag some. If one wheel drags and the other doesn't, I believe there is an adjustment on the cable ends near the rear wheels on each side. Do the same for the parking brake and then check the rear wheels with the pedal or lever depressed. Keep adjusting till you get you the wheels to hold really good with some good tension on the pedal or lever.

Hope this helps,
Gary

490Touring,

I ran out to measure the gas pedal button. It is 1/8" thick by 1 and 1/2" round with a 1/4"- 20 threaded hole for the rod.

Cheers,
Gary

Thanks for the answers! One quick question- is work on the clutch normally done from underneath, or by removing the floorboards? If I do have to adjust the expanders, does the clutch have to be removed and/or disassembled?

I have not had to adjust the expanders yet. It is my understanding that they can be adjusted in the car. Yes, the floorboard is removable for easier excess to the clutch. While the floorboard is removed be sure to oil the clutch collar. There is a small hole which to drop the oil in on the flat top of the collar right behind the cone clutch.
I would use the neatsfoot oil on the leather first and see how the clutch is before attempting any adjustments. That is just me, though.

Cheers,
Gary

How do you apply neatsfoot oil to the leather ? I'm not able to see the facing...

Fred

If your neatsfoot oil is not in a spray can I would secure one of the plastic bottles with the pump on top. With that arrangements you could spray the oil on both the top and bottom much easier.

Fred,

How I apply the neatsfoot oil is to pour a small amount into a cup and with a helper depressing the clutch pedal, I use a small cheap paint brush, dip it in the oil and slide the brush in between the clutch leather and the flywheel. Then I use a 1/2" wrench and turn a bolt on the clutch assembly a quarter turn and reapply the brush/oil till I have gone all the way around. The excess oil will squeeze out when the clutch pedal is released, just wipe it off. The clutch may slip a little till anymore excess works it's way out. Usually in a few miles of driving.

Cheers,
Gary

Fred,

I'm just a baby beginner so take my advice with a grain of salt but I have adjusted the clutch expanders in my '23. I am fairly certain the cone clutch setup in my car is similar to yours. Like you, my lower back was hoping to be able to access the clutch to work on the expanders and at the same time apply neat foots oil, through the floor boards. No such luck. I had to crawl underneath the car. That however was the most difficult part of the job. My expanders were easily adjusted with a screwdriver and wrench. Each of the adjusters had a small cotter pin that had to be removed before the adjusters could be turned. You will need a wrench to turn the flywheel to get to all of the adjusters (my clutch has six of them.) I think the trick is getting the correct clearance on the locknut. You will need to find the specs for that for your car and then use a feeler gauge to get the correct clearance. It only took me about 15-20 minutes to make the adjustments. (It took me twice that long limber up enough to fold myself underneath the car and then an hour in our hot tub after that to recover.) Ditto on the comments about the neat foots oil. The clutch will slip after you apply it but that sure beats the grabbing and it eventually goes away.

Danskar,

I am curious, what is the clutch expander clearance on your '23?

Thanks,
Gary

Gary,

The shop manual I have is for 1918-1924 490s and Superiors. Relative to adjusting the expanders the manual states:

"To adjust the expanders, turn each of the expander nuts from right to left until a thickness gauge about .005 of an inch in thickness can be placed between the nut and the clip. In the event the clutch is slipping or will not hold when engaged, turn each expander nut from right to left until they lightly touch the clip, then give them one-half turn in the opposite direction. Unscrewing a half turn allows the expanders to act properly under the clutch."

The shop manual has some very useful illustrations as well.

My car is currently in the shop getting some head work done on it. I talked with the mechanic about this issue and he said that one of his friends with a 490 adjusts his expanders to .020. Somewhere I picked up a copy of instructions from a company that relines cone clutches. Their recommendation for clearance was .015.

So what's a few thousands of an inch among friends?

I read these posts after already attempting to adjust the expanders. Couldn't believe I was able to walk into the local shoe repair shop and buy Neatsfoot oil. Got some feeler guages too and removed the floorboards. No problem adjusting them from the top. I still don't understand how you are supposed to uniformly spread the oil on the clutch facing when it is inside the housing, but I gave it a shot- got an old fashioned tin oiler and shot it in the two holes and around the circumference. Then I adjusted my "prop rod" holding the clutch open until it was barely engaged, and cranked the engine over a turn or two. Figured that would spread the oil around a bit. If there is a better way, someone please let me know! I'm about to go out today, re assemble and take it for a short run to see if things have improved. The clutch isn't the only problem- the car jerks like crazy when you adjust the throttle up or down, with the clutch fully engaged. Not sure what the problem is, but this afternoon we took our daughter on a hayride behind an old tractor and it was a lot smoother.

Took it for a spin around the block and the difference was night and day. Whatever I did helped- not a perfect clutch but a LOT better.Also less jerky to drive, mainly because I'm getting more used to it- never driven anything with manual spark advance and had to get the hang of it. Actually got it in 3rd gear this time and it chugged right along. Thought I had a slight rod knock until I pushed in the clutch and the noise quieted. I assume the throwout bearing is noisy? Brakes still take 30 feet to stop from 5mph, but it's obvious the adjustment is off. The linings that are easily visible look great.

Update: Went out after dinner to move the car into the garage and it wouldn't start. Engine was still a bit warm, I think if cold it would have started. Gas was leaking out of the card and I thought it was flooded. Checked the plugs and there was no visible gas. The plugs were black as if running a bit too rich.

I finagled with it and finally got her going. I'm thinking a carb rebuild is in order and wondered if any of you have recommendations as to who to send it to. I have fooled around with rebuilding carbs in early years and never had much luck.

It is very difficult to flood updraft carburetors but it can be done if the gas level allows gas to rise into the air inlet passage. It is common to need to shut off gas to carburetor when it is not run for an extended time. If it continues to flood or overfill then take the cover off the needle shaft and tap lightly with a screwdriver handle. That can reshape the seat or force out small pieces of trash.

There are very few rebuilders that are familiar with the Zenith O4 carburetors. It takes a few special tools to properly take them apart and reassemble. Be sure that the rebuilder has experience and will test run the carburetor before sending it back.

Hmmmm....I did the customary tapping of a screwdriver handle on the float bowl and that's when it finally started. If anyone knows an experienced rebuilder let me know.

Is this a Zenith 04, or a T4?

Hope it's not a T4, as if it is, I will be competing with owners of rare 1923 Henderson motorcycles for any that might be for sale.

It is the replacement Zenith T-4X (stamped float cover) and not the original Zenith O-4. Internally they are basically jetted the same. The throttle arms and jetting are not the same as Henderson but good bodies are getting really hard to come by. The T-4 (cast brass float cover) and T-4XF are tough too.

Thanks, very useful info! So to determine if this really needs rebuilding or replacing- how much gasoline normally drips out when the motor is shut off?An old Zenith carb book says some is normal, and the carb has a hole in the bottom for that purpose. Mine drips a 6" puddle every time.

Some don't leak at all. Others a drip or two occasionally. More are not house broke (puddle). Even those that don't normally will occasionally leak when float hangs a little on the weights.

In short time I will send the original and another Zenith 4 to be refurbished in USA. The treatment costs a lot, but I want tSolan to run as best he can.

I have another two as spares and am thinking of selling those if somebody wants them at fair prices. Here is the link:
http://s889.photobucket.com/albums/ac98/solan1916/carburetors%20Zenith%204/

Previously I have tried to sell the two on the Parts for sale, but with no response.

Carb # 2 has the correct throttle arms for a 490 Chevy. Carbs # 1 and # 3 have different arms. The internals may be the same or not.

Worked most of the day adjusting the brakes. Never fooled with mechanical brakes before but they seem straightfoward. Now a reasonable amount of pressure on the brake pedal or brake lever locks both wheels at about the same time- big improvement. Can't wait to take it for a spin tomorrow and actually have more possibility of stopping than just "stomp and pray"!

Somewhere in a book it said to check the advance by moving the lever and watching the distributor turn. A lever under mine moves, but the unit doesn't turn. Something wrong?

Yep, something is wrong. There should be an arm down on the steering column that moves directly up and down corresponding to when you move the lever at the wheel up and down. That arm should have a 3/16" diameter rod, which passes right through the middle of the block (the opening between cylinder # 2 and # 3) and connects to a small arm on the distibutor. So when you push/pull the lever at the steering wheel, it push/pulls the rod and thereby rotates the distributor. It's all just a straight mechanical linkage, no fancy springs or anything else. Is that connecting link maybe gone?

The linkage is all there - but my distributor does not rotate. The linkage moves a lever under the distributor, but the distributor itself does not move. That's what I was wondering - if just the lever moves, or the whole distributor.