VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Oil (1928)

Several questions on oil.. Is 30 weight non-det. from Tractor Supply ok for the engine? Marvel mystery oil Additive? What do I use in the trans? Rear-end? Also I have that oil leak that seems to be coming from the bottom of the crank area after shutting the car down. Is this going to be a big job to get this corrected or should i just let her mark her territory? Thanks again in advance!

Non-detergent 30W is probably not the best option. Most of us use 10W-30 as it has many more advantages over straight weigh oil. The detergent is not aggressive enough to dissolve a significant amount of sludge.

The transmission and rear end should have 600W or SAE 160. Many of us use SAE 140 as it is much easier to obtain.

The leak can be improperly installed oil pan gasket or loose rear main bearing. If the leak is small then nothing needs to be done short term. If it gets excessive then likely repairs are warranted. They are not tough but take time to do correctly.

Hi TIFFIN28,

I will take a stab at answering your questions. We recommend 10-30 detergent oil. The oil does not need any additive.

600 W is recommended for both the transmission and the rear end.

I am not sure where you are asking about the leak. The most common leak after shutdown is the timing gear cover. Very few people understand what is involved here and as a result do not know how to stop this leak.

To correct the leak the front pulley has to be removed from the crank. Do not use a puller on the sides of the pulley as this could damage the pulley. Use a puller that can go inside the hub and pull from there.

Now that we have taken care of that the next step is to remove the timing gear cover. When it is off take a good look at the lowest point of the cover and see if there are traces of various oil levels. Completely remove any traces of the gasket left on the front cover. Do the same for the timing gear cover. I prefer to cut my own gaskets. I would cut this one out of some of the fairly thin fake cork. When you do the reassembly you can use any number of sealers on both sides of the gasket. Do NOT over tighten the screws as this will distort the cover and cause a leak. (Overlooked instructions: the tin cover should be straightened very well all around the edges).

If you have not figured this out yet, the oil is fed beside the cam to the cam gear. After use it falls to the bottom of the pocket made by the cam cover and the front plate. This oil is below the hole for the excess oil to drain back into the pan. So over a period of time the oil leaks out AFTER the vehicle is parked and the engine shut off.

If this does not answer your questions, just let us know and someone else will make a stab at it.

Thank You for the oil info. Have not gotten out the inspection mirror but it could be coming out of the bottom of timing cover.

Thanks for the info on the leak. It sounds exactly just like the problem I have. I will have to see if i can find that kind of puller. Any ideas on where i could find one or a picture of one. The pulley has probably never been removed any tips like penetrating oil soak?

The gap between the crank and puley is too small for penetrating oil to get it and do any good. Just put the puller on and give it some tension and then lighty tap the center puller screw with a hammer while watching the pulley to see if it moves. Give it a bit more tension and tap it again. it should move ok and then come off just by turning the center screw. On the oil issue, I use 10-30 in my 28 and also add a bit of Lucas oil assembly lube which contains ZDDP which will help protect the high lobes of the cam and the lifter bottoms. Oil in the US now days does not contain this additive anymore since modern engines have all gone to roller lifters and the EPA is worried about the zinc coating the converter. Back in 28 oil didn't contain it either but cam wear was a common problem in most engines. Detergents don't clean dirty engines either, they keep the black soot and other goodies like dust suspended so the oil filter can filter it out of circuating oil thereby helping to keep the engine clean on the inside. The basic rule was before filters and just regular oil(since detergent oil wasn't around back then) was to drop the oil pan off and clean out the settled gunk once or twice a year. Some car owners and shop manuals from the 20s and teens I have read said to drain oil and put plug back in and add some gasoline or kerosene to the pan and rock the car back and forth by hand! That cut the settled crud out and when draining leave plug out overnight to dry out the kero or gas.

Thank You, sounds like my project this fall!!

Just a bit of a correction. Copied from the Mobil 1 website "The active ingredient that you are talking about is phosphorus which is added thru a component called ZDDP. For products that meet the new ILSAC GF-4 specification the phosphorus levels for the oil must be less than 800 ppm phosphorus. The ILSAC level for phosphorus has been reduced to protect the catalytic converter and other emission protection equipment. The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines." Other websites contain similar information.

Adding a bit more ZDDP may not be necessary and it will not hurt our old Chevys either as long as it is compatible with the other oil additives. [From the Valvoline.com website. "You can use an additive to increase the zinc level. However, check with your motor oil manufacturer to ensure the additive is compatible with your ... oil.]

If it gives the owner peace of mind then it may be a benefit.

Do any of you know of a good antique car mechanic in Ohio? Will changing to 10/30 affect any sludge that is currently in the engine? Just do not want to break some loose and plug up anything.The oil in there now is 30 and looks clean just time for fresh!

For major engine overhauls, Ron Miller does one helluva job on these old babbited bearing motors. He is primarily a Ford guy, but does do work on other makes:

http://ronsmachineshop.net/Welcome.html

I personally recommend him. He did a great job on my '30 motor. He is located in southwest Ohio.

Dan

Thanks for the web-site

All I know is I put two cams in my 71 chevy truck when I used off the shelf oil low or no ZDDP oil. Both cams had the lobe ends worn off and lifters were dished badly. Got over 10k miles so far on the last cam since I have used the additive and no problems. The old cams went out in less than 6000 miles. I no longer change oil in anything I own that has flat tappet cams without using the higher ZDDP level oils. Those engineers who say you don't need it wont be there to help you change cams and sure as heck won't pay for them. If you are worried about sludge in the engine. one way to check for it easily is to take some bailing wir and put a small loop in the end and fish it down the oi fill tube to the bottom of the pan and pull it back out. The gunk shoud collect in the loop. Deep gunk can starve your oil pump pick up screen. No magical ceaning agent will clean out that stuff, it will be as thick as fresh mixed bondo at the bottom of the pan. You have to pull the pan and clean it by hand. Once claned though with regular changes and using a filter and detergent oil it should stay clean forever.

Ray
Re "To correct the leak the front pulley has to be removed from the crank. Do not use a puller on the sides of the pulley as this could damage the pulley. The correct procedure is to use the puller that has the two long bolts that screw into the threaded holes in the pulley."

I've never seen a 28 crank pulley with threaded holes, just checked my 6 spares and none have holes.
Also I believe that you have to take the radiator out to carry out this task. Am I wrong? cna it done without taking it out?
My 28 cabriolet was in storage for 27 years and the timing cover leaks, I haven't had the time (or energy) to fix it yet, however short term I've covered the hole in the front cross member so it doesn't leak onto the ground and I wipe it out with a rag before using the car.
Chris

One more question. Just installed a new valve seat for the float valve in the carb. New bowl gasket top and bottom, keeps wanting to drip a little at the bottom nut. Kinda scared to go to tight with the nut. Any suggestions guys?

The '28 Carter carburetor should have a gasket inside and one outside at the float bowl. If the gaskets are good then leaks are rare. The nut needs to be snug but not too tight.

New gaskets inside and outside bottom nut. Just kinda seeps and forms a drop. Was going to give it some time hoping it would stop. Whats your thoughts on some teflon tape?

I absolutely never use Teflon tape anywhere near gasoline. It strings and plugs up too much stuff.