VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER Chevrolet Speedsters Racing a 28 Chev 4

Yes I know seems like a crazy Idea but after dreaming of it since I was 19 getting into hotting up a 28 for the Vintage car races here in Australia, my uncle has a hot Triumph 7 (1939) and Dad is finishing of his 45 Morgan, now I have nutted out much of it but the wisdom of you all will be appreciated, Firstly I intend to raise the compression some with custom made taller pistons to get a 6:1 Ratio. Yes I have thought of valve clearances etc, but my main concern is oil feed to bottom end.
Should I
A) drill out a crank shaft and develop a pressure feed to the big ends
or
B) run an oil feed to the three main journals and just increase the hole in the dippers of the conrods?

I have heard that the famous Fangio began racing Chev 4's in Brazil and got 100mph out of them, any one have any info to back up this rhumour an how he did it ? , RAYCYCLED

Get yourself a copy of the book by John Gerber. He was a pioneer of dirt track racing in the American Midwest and always ran Chevy 4 cylinder engines.
A friend increased compression on his '28 engine by making longer rods. I believe he fitted a '37-'39 oil pump and drilled his crankshaft.

Mike

According to a partial review of this thread (which is what introduced me to the Chevy 4), the four is easily overbored to 3.75", which opens up a whole range of piston options (although in most cases custom rods are necessary to adjust compression height): 1955-57 Chevrolet 265ci V8; 1973-80 Mercedes MB 230ci 4 cylinder 1973-80; 1954-62 Chevrolet 261ci 6 cylinder; 1941-62 GMC 270ci 6 cylinder; Hercules JX4-C2 & JXC-OOB (Zolner Piston Co #153) used in John Deere and Massy-Ferguson combines; 1955-57 International 264ci “Black Diamond” 6 cylinder; 1955-64 Ford 292ci V8; 1964-67 Buick 300 & 340ci V8s; 1963-66 Rambler 287ci V8; 1980-84 Cadillac 368ci V8

I’m planning to use 261 pistons, myself, as they actually have a taller compression height than the stock piston and offer a bit of turbulence versus most of the choices (the other goodie being the International piston). Using slightly longer Model A Ford rods boosts that a bit more yet.

I don’t know much about oiling, as I’m planning to stay with babbitt and splash oiling. It’s discussed a bit in that same thread, however, with the guru suggesting drilling the main caps, then grooving the block to allow the oil to flow around to the top. He also says a six-cylinder oil pump will bolt into the stock location, although the pickup is slightly higher and necessitates running more oil.

-Dave

For the record that's "Outlaw Sprint Car Racer".

According to the MTFCA Hall of Fame, Gerber mated his 490 block to a Ford T pan in order to use the Ford rear axle (he was essentially after a valve-in-head head without the expense of a Rajo, Fronty or the like - much like guys using Jern Thunderbolt adaptors these days). He may also have used both a T crank and a Wills Sainte Claire crank at various times.

-Dave

Thanks for all that guys, took me a while to realise my post had been moved? It is still a chev 4 ?
I need to get new pistons and can just order taller ones from JP pistons in Adelaide, Australia. I have their pistons in my current 28 motor and my Indian top quality and off the shelf prices.
I definitely think i need to up the oil to the big ends, wasalso contemplating using a 27 block and 28 head so i get the higher valve lift. is there any way of getting the 27 cam to fit a 28 block? RAY

Don Peterson..Cave Creek Arizona and I talked about this same thing..He described a 24 that had an external line and oil pump system. He might be one to talk to. He has several engines dry stored. blue38

There's been a bit of discussion on whether to use an earlier (pre-27) or later block to race with on that thread- most of it falling on the ditributor hole that runs through the '27-28 center main webbing. I've heard strong arguments on both sides... will need to find an early block to come up with the answer myself :)

Finding an Olds 3 port head (or a '25 Chevrolet truck head) will help tremendously with letting the engine breath- just take a look at the difference between the Olds and the '28 Chevy head (on the '28 head, you can take the honeycombs AND the intake runners out anbd see what I mean)!!!

Juan Fangio won the 5800 mjle Buenoes Aires to Lima peru in a solid axle 39 Chevrolet with a average speed of 57 miles an hour Must have known something. anyone ever researched his modifications? Bill blue38

I think there was an article in Hot Rod Magazine about a year ago on the early Chev 4s. That fellow was running a Model B crank in his Chev 4 and got it to something like 127 mph on the salt flats. A Model T crank has really small journals that probably would not hold up long due to flex at those rpms.

John Gerber started out racing in a modified Chevy. His engine block of choice was a 1925 if I recall correctly.
I think he changed to the Model T chassis when he was sponsored by a Ford dealer. I doubt he ever used a T crankshaft, the bearings are MUCH smaller than Chevy mains.
He regularly outran the Frontys and other overhead Ts.

Mike

Mike,

Gerber used the Ford chassis because of greater availability of poarts and better strength (the early Chevrolet rear is pretty weak). He also used a Wills St Claire V8 180 degree crankshaft with T rods and pistons.

Spurgin/Giovanine used a Ford B crank in their engine, since it was counter-balanced and used Curtiss OX 5 (Jenny) rods.

For the record, it was Bill McKay that gave me the bad info on the T crank.


-Dave

Ohhh, now I'm being quoted :)

Dave,

I'll have to check my notes, but I do remember that by the time he finished with that engine, the ONLY thing left that was Chevrolet was the block!

Been a bit busy with house renos but still tinkering with my 28 motor, to go in my 28 ute (pick up) I have a pair of SU's set up to go on it, calculated that if I raise the height of the piston by 1/4 i will get 6.2:1 compression with out hitting the valves, and have now tapped an oil line to the 3 main journals , going to drill out the crank from the center journal to feed the big ends and have modified the dissy to get a better advance at higher revs, the one thing I am stumped on is the valve timing and over lap. Heard a rumour a few years ago some one in Sydney was re grinding CHEV 4 cams to breath better any thoughts? RAYCYCLED

I had Oregon Cam Grinding in Vancouver Washington regrind my cam. I asked him to see if he could put a little overlap in the grind. That should let the exhaust scavenge out the cylinder a little. The stock profile has no overlap of the lobes. He commented that it should help at higher speeds. Unfortunately he was not able to get the little higher lift that I asked for by reprofiling the grind. Oh well, that would probably mean taking it to a hard chrome plater and adding some material. I just wasn't prepared to go quite that far with this project at this time.

A good idea to feed the bigends & main bearings,the only problem being to get some sort of seal for the rear main bearing to stop any oil leaks.
I'm running about 6:1 compression in my '28 truck with the standard slpash feed for the mains & bigends with no dramas.The truck has only had a minor o/haul on the bottom end after 11 years of not so easy use,as many who know it will testify.

For anyone interested in the John Gerber book, I bought mine about 10 years ago at the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame and Museum in Knoxville, Iowa. At the time, they had on display a full size replica of John Gerber's small race shop. Since buying the book, I have reread it maybe 8-10 times, it's that good! The book is still available from the museum for $22.50.

https://www.sprintcarstuff.com/ProductSearch.aspx?catid=1

Thank You. The only place I could find it was Amazon and the best price was $65.00.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236178&page=797

This thread on the HAMB has some good pics of the same John Gerber display I saw at Knoxville, about halfway down this page in the link above. Looks like this display is now at the EMMR in PA. The EMMR is a short drive south of Hershey for anyone going that way next week, and definitely worth seeing.