Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks



Visit the new site at vcca.org

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
There is a very slow drip of coolant from the bottom of the No. 5 cylinder bore on this 1932 194. I use Evans waterless coolant.

The engine did not exhibit any signs of a problem last fall. The car has been in winter storage since the fall and has not been started since then. I had the oil pan off for some time now to try to figure out why I have 1qt/100 miles oil leak past the rear main only to find this!!!

I was tipped off to this situation this morning because of a small "water" like puddle on the concrete floor. I decided to do a taste test on the fluid on the cylinder walls (am not touching the stuff on the floor). I looked up at the bottom of the engine; cylinders 1 & 6 are at the bottom of there stroke and not available to sample. Cylinders 2-3-4 - nothing but oil. Cylinder No. 5 - coolant.

I did a search on here using key words like "head gasket", "coolant", "water in oil" and others. I did find a posting where Chev Nut suggested pulling the spark plugs and crank the engine and watch what might spray out from the ports as well as looking for coolant behind the push rod cover.

Spark plug No. 5 was wet, all others were dry. No fluid was spit out of any of the spark plug ports when the engine was cranked and there was no evidence of coolant behind the push rod cover.

There is 3500 miles on the engine since the latest rebuilt to fix the oil leak at the rear main.

What else should I be looking for (other than a better re-builder)?

flush


32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Filling Station - Chevrolet & GMC Reproduction Parts


Filling Station


Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,472
Likes: 26
ChatMaster - 7,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 7,000
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,472
Likes: 26
Perhaps you have a rust pin hole in the block leaking into the cylinder. Only cure I know of is to have the cylinder sleeved.


Steve D
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,701
Likes: 141
ChatMaster - 25,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 25,000
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,701
Likes: 141
I would suspect a leaking head gasket or cracked head.....


Gene Schneider
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,379
Likes: 1
Technical Advisor
ChatMaster - 10,000
Offline
Technical Advisor
ChatMaster - 10,000
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,379
Likes: 1


Do you have excessive white exhaust?


Agrin devil


RAY


Chevradioman
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/



1925 Superior K Roadster
1928 Convertible, Sport, Cabriolet
1933 Eagle, Coupe
1941 Master Deluxe 5-Passenger Coupe
1950 Styleline Deluxe 4-Door Sedan
1950 Styleline Deluxe Convertible
2002 Pontiac, Montana, Passenger Van
2014 Impala, 4-Door Sedan, White Diamond, LTZ
2017 Silverado, Double Cab, Z71, 4X4, White, Standard Bed, LTZ

If you need a shoulder to cry on, pull off to the side of the road.
Death is the number 1 killer in the world.


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Steve6,

I hope it isn't a rust pin hole. If so, two machinists over looked it before. I can't bare the thought of a third tear down. However, I will look for it if the HG is not the issue.

Chevgene,

I have ordered 2 HG from FS today. One for now and a spare for later.

Chevradioman,

There wasn't any noticeable white smoke from the exhaust before I parked it for the winter. The leak must be a very small one.



Regardless of how small the leak may be, might one recognize the fault in the old HG if that is what the problem is?


(You see, I know just enough to be dangerous; not good! doh)

Last edited by 32confederation; 06/06/11 08:31 PM.

32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
I have removed the engine and transmission today from this '32 LP in preparation for a rebuild. I hope with a new HG and some crankshaft thrust clearance adjustments it will solve the coolant leak into cylinder #5 and the chronic oil leak from the rear main.

I am hoping that this third machine shop (I have dealt with since 2005) will provide an engine that will take me into 2026 touring calendar.

auto


32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,863
Tech Advisor
ChatMaster - 25,000
Offline
Tech Advisor
ChatMaster - 25,000
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,863
Quote
There is 3500 miles on the engine since the latest rebuild to fix the oil leak at the rear main.

Quote
I have removed the engine and transmission today from this '32 LP in preparation for a rebuild.

Holy Cow! Sounds like you don't get very many miles between engine rebuilds.

laugh wink beer2



The Mangy Old Mutt

"If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573


32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 301
Backyard Mechanic
Offline
Backyard Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 301
Gday just wondering what torque settings you have been using and if you have re torqued the head bolts after a settling in period? Regards Michael.


"Never give up" Louis Chevrolet
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Cylinder head bolts were torqued to +/- 70 ftlb. I did re-torque after settling in period.


32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 199
Shade Tree Mechanic
Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 199
Were the block and head decked before they put it together. I had a problem with going through head gaskets and had my head machined and never had a problem since. Make sure if you do not to use what is basically a big belt sander they tend to take more off the leading edges and leaves a bit of an arch in the surface. Make sure they do it on a decking machine to get everything level. Some people worry that this will increase compression or have clearance issues but they are only taking a few thousandths off the surface. I would suggest finding a shop that specializes in racing engines they tend to be more focused on the small details than most shops and that is the difference that counts in the long run.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 301
Backyard Mechanic
Offline
Backyard Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 301
I think todd3131 could be on the right track the water seems to have been in more than two cylinders I would have the head crack tested as well and hopefully the motor is ok and the head only needs resurfacing. Regards Michael.


"Never give up" Louis Chevrolet
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 437
Likes: 1
Backyard Mechanic
Offline
Backyard Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 437
Likes: 1
Who is rebuilding your engine?


Paul
If it isn't broken, fiddle with it anyway so you have something to repair.
1931 Deluxe Sport Roadster
1953 BelAir 4 dr. Sedan
1965 Chevy II Nova SS
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9
Grease Monkey
Offline
Grease Monkey
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9
I have been down this road before with local Eng. shops.
Some very important considerations to make with these old engines.
Magnafluxing the block and head for cracks.
Decking block and Cyl. head or at least confirmation from the Eng. shop that they checked both to be staight, and I mean straight.
Unfortunately all this requires a complete tear down of the Eng.
If you end up having to do all this go all the way and have the Eng. balanced. In other words, have the crank, Con. rods and pistons balanced - it rally makes for a smooth running Eng. and it will last a lot longer.
Best of luck!

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Quote
Who is rebuilding your engine?

Hi Paul,

After having gone through the expense of having this engine rebuilt twice since 2005 by others, it will be me who takes charge of rebuilding this engine this time. I will hire individual jobbers and get it done a bit at a time. Where I lack knowledge, I will beg or borrow all that is extended to me. After 62 years in the family, this car survive a novice like me.

I am forever indebted to VCCA, Bill, Bruce, Forest, Gene, Ray, Skip and Steve for helping to get this LP this far.



32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,472
Likes: 26
ChatMaster - 7,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 7,000
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,472
Likes: 26
I agree about balancing and would only add that perhaps the crank pulley, flywheel and clutch should be included. Basically anything that turns with or is connected to the crankshaft.


Steve D
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,472
Likes: 26
ChatMaster - 7,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 7,000
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,472
Likes: 26
Unfortunately the number of shops that can properly rebuild the older engines is dwindling. When the engines were being rebuilt on a regular basis some shops got proficient at it due to the repetition of it. Nowadays they may not see the same engine every two or three years and overlooking just one item can cause disaster. My best advice is to make a list of all that needs doing and then not rush to get it done. I'm sure under your watchful eye you will end up with a fine running engine.


Steve D
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
After rebuilding this engine myself this time. She started up on the the first push of the starter button.

Now to hook up the torque tube, steering linkage, adjust the brakes, put in the drivers seat and go see if I fixed that gross oils leak!

yay


32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 680
Oil Can Mechanic
Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 680
Ok, it runs. Don't let that fact blind you to the future life of your engine. Please tell us what has transpired since last reporting. I'm hoping that you bought new Head Bolts, oiled the threads with Marvel Mystery oil and torqued them to at least 85 Ft.Lbs.. After seeing all your photos I'm of the opinion that the old Head Bolts are/were stretching causing Head gasket failure. Head Bolts do fail/stretch while being installed and during service or running of the engine. Be aware that you must re-adjust the Valves every time you touch the Head bolts. Al W.


It's Wise to choose a six!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
Oil Can Mechanic
OP Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 573
I initially dropped the oil pan to work on the bottom end of the engine to fix a major oil leak at the rear main. While investigating, I discovered the head gasket problem. At that point I chose to pull the engine from the chassis with the transmission attached and complete this work myself.

Here are some of the steps completed in the process of making the repairs, after the engine was removed from the chassis:

[list]
[*]-Removed transmission, pressure plate, flywheel and placed engine on stand
-Removed cylinder head and cleaned the deck, head and piston crowns
-Cleaned the glazing from the cylinder walls
-Used a bottom tap and compressed air to clean out the threads in the block
-Used a straight edge and a 0.002" feeler gauge to check the deck and head for flatness
-Magnafluxed the head to look for cracks
-Put a small amount of ATF on the crown of each piston to check for stuck rings
-Made up four guide pins to align the head onto the block
-Installed a new copper head gasket on the guide pins after copper coating both sides of the head gasket
-Installed the cylinder head
-Retired the original head bolts
-Installed new grade 8 head bolts after oiling lightly
-Torqued the head bolts to an interim setting of 40 ft-lbs using the prescribed pattern in 20 ft-lbs increments
-Rotated engine and dismantled the rear main bearing
-Checked the center main thrust clearance
-Checked the slinger clearance to the back of the oil trough
-Examined the rear main check ball and determined the path to be clear
-Examined the rear main babbitt bearing surfaces, cleaned cap and block mating surfaces
-Counted and then discarded old rear main bearing shims
-Installed new shims and used green plastigauge to set bearing clearance to 0.001" (cleaned plastigauge residue from bearing surfaces)
-Used a small amount of Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on the mating surfaces of the rear main cap and the block at the oil trough surrounding the slinger (the oil trough had been damaged by an engine shop in a previous re-build)
-Cranked engine by hand to confirm that it was not locked
-Replaced front and rear main cap cork gaskets and installed oil pan and gasket with a small dab of Permatex Aviation -Form-A-Gasket on the block where the rear of the oil pan meets the block
-Rotated engine right side up, examined, cleaned and installed lifters, push rods and rockers after oiling
-Installed push rod cover with gaskets and used a small amount of black silicone sealant on the cover in two spots where the cylinder head meets the block (on this engine, the cylinder head and the block do not form a flat surface for the push rod cover gasket to make a seal)
-Installed engine into chassis with transmission attached
-Torqued head bolts to 75 ft-lbs in approximately 15 ft-lbs increments
-Set interim tappet clearance on a cold engine to 0.010" intake and 0.012" exhaust in preparation for initial start up


Before the sunset at 4:30 PM EST (which was one hour earlier than it set yesterday) the car came down off the jack stands for the first time since November 2010. Without floor boards or an accelerator button, no headlights or horns, I warmed the engine up, waited for the excess oil and ATF fluids to burn off. I backed this LP down to the end of the driveway, found first gear and drove back. It wasn't a long trip but after sitting idle for a year, it wasn't bad for a car that turns 80 this month!

There is still plenty of work that needs to be done before I can take this car out on the road again and now I may be motivated to get it done before the snow is here to stay.

carbana




32confederation (Canadian, eh!)
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,774
Likes: 4
ChatMaster - 1,500
Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,774
Likes: 4
Sounds like you did a good job!


Ed
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 680
Oil Can Mechanic
Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 680
I agree with Uncle Ed! Seeing as your checking of the Head and Block found all to be good I'll reiterate that the old Head Bolts probably were stretching and unable to hold the Head down. Good Luck and many miles, Al W.


It's Wise to choose a six!

Link Copied to Clipboard
 

Notice: Any comments posted herein do not necessarily reflect the official position of the VCCA.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5