VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Hard starting 37

I know I have been poking around in you guy's memory banks a lot what with the brake problem, the fuel gauge problem, ect. Just once more please. I took the missus and daughter to dinner the other night. The sedan ran well all of the way there, about five miles. When I got done with dinner and tried to start the car it took about forty-five seconds of turning over before it started. I somehow (don't ask me how) stalled it in the driveway when I got home and again it cranked for about forty-five seconds before starting. The heat riser is frozen. How do I tell if it is frozen open or frozen closed? If it is frozen closed, could this be a causing of hard starting when the engine is warm?

Should be an interesting ? Is the coil spring on the exhaust box tight or loose Believe it tightens when cool which would close flap. Doubt very much if riser is the problem.

Are you using Ethanol gasoline?

If the flat area on nte bottom of the heat riser weight is perfectly horizontal hte base of the carburetor is getting exhaust all the time - bad.
If its is rotated about 30 degrees the heat is shut-of - good.
We have had ethanol gas in this part of Wisconin for many years and I have never has a retart problem with my 1939.
Next time when it refuses to start remove the air cleaner and pump the accelerator pedal and have someone watch with a flash lift to see if gas is being pumped into the carb. throat. If not can be seen the gas is evaporating from the carb.

Next question: What is the best way to un-stick the heat riser?

Soak both ends of the shaft with PB Blaster. Tap shaft end to end with a brass hammer (front to back).....may take several attempts. May not work at all.

We have had Ethanol gas here for some time and that stuff is garbage fuel. Even our modern cars with carburetors have difficulty starting after shut-down when the engine is still hot. Our '84 Oldsmobile absolutely hates that stuff and it takes forever to start that car hot in warm weather.

If the heat riser is stuck in the open position or after freeing it up it again sticks in the open position (see Chevgene's post on determining open/closed position) just leave it there. Open is better than closed. Mine is stuck open and I have no trouble with it starting and idling. Just a little choke when cold.

The only way to KEEP the heat riser working is to constantly maintain it. This means you must remember to work it back and forth after each engine start and run of any period of time exceeding three minutes and 17 seconds. The hard part is to remember to go back out to the car after 30 minutes has passed and/or sufficient time for the heat riser to cool. You then must reach in and grab it and work it back and forth and lubricate it with "Bubble Blaster." To me, more trouble than it's worth. The benefits of a working heat riser are minimal and the effort to keep one functional quite high and continuous.
Charlie

BTW: For all you who are now scoffing at the above and are saying to yourself that Charlie is full of it and are thinking "mine is working right now", I challenge you to go out, lift the hood and see if its free or not. ... Are you back in the house yet? See I was right wasn't I. That sucker is stuck tighter than a tick or a dollar bill in Tiny's money clip (pick one) ain't it?. Told ya so.

Sorry, I forgot to mention about the hard starting.

As to the hard starting, either you are flooding it or it's starved. At home (so that it's not embarassing) try starting it with the hood up. If you see and/or smell gas at the carburater then it is being flooded. If you don't see or smell gas, then it may be starved and you need to give the accelerator pedal a mash or two.

If it is flooded just hold the accelerator to the floorboards while cranking it over, it will soon as the mixture gets the right.

You may need to fiddle with adjusting and/or cleaning the carb. The floot may need adjusting also.
Good luck,
Charlie

BTW: The heat riser position has little effect on a start up.

Charlie...Can you explain exactly what a FLOOT IS????
I have not been feeling well lately and have this flooded feeling all the time. You might have hit on something, maybe I need my FLOOT ADJUSTED???...So if you can tell me what a FLOOT is maybe I can adjust it my self and save a trip to the doctor.

BTW...Also thanks for explaining about the "Heat Riser"
I always thought the " HEAT RISER" was the the young lady who lives next door and sun bathes in the yard all the time....ED

Ed,
A floot is that thingee in the carburetor that goes up and down with the bowl's gas level. When the gas reached its programed level it shuts off the gas entering the carburetor.

Of course, for those who are grammatical nit-pickers here in the forums it does help when the word such as "float" is not spelled correctly. You see, it gives them something to do. Nothing like pouncing on a misspelled word to bring on a toe-curling thrill equal to those rarely found in any other place than the bedr ... er, well, you get the picture. Otherwise they may have to resort to reading the newspaper, hanging onto every utterances in oral conversations and all other means of communications in order to feel complete and, in general, most helpful to mankind. Grin


I arepipacte yuor pinotnig out my sellpnig msitkaes to me. Do too!
Cihrale

Well Cihrale,

I thunk ya war spellin fonetically and meant "flute", as in thet thar thingie above the ingen on sum cars that reaches amost from the far wall to the radyater. Sum go "AAAYRUGAA!". Cudn't figger out what thet had dun wit hard startin, tho.....

To all of the boys and girls (and those that can't tell)who posted replies to my original question, THANK YOU. After spending a half day spraying PB Blaster and tapping the shaft every half hour I could see the shaft moving about a 32nd of an inch back and forth, but the butterfly remained locked. It was probably stuck inside the exhaust manifold. Anyway, I lost my patience (Is a half a day patient?) and used a pair of vice grips on the end of the shaft to move it. The counter weight was under the intake manifold. Now it is out with the face pointing near the junction of the top and side of the hood. It'll take a few more trips, but a short drive getting up to operating temperature, then shutting her off, she started with a minimal amount of cranking. Problem may be solved. I'll take offered advise and make sure it stays in that position from now on. By the way, the short drive was to a farmers market a few miles from home for a pint of Michigan cherries picked about two hours ago. Life Is Good!

You gotta b kerful bout gittin the flooter out of kilter kaus iffin it is rong one way you could fart a star undir the injin bonnet and birn up your kar!