VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 Them's the brakes

You see, I have this '26 truck. On the ocassions I've taken a short drive, some of the most exciting moments have not been in the driving part and waiving at the neighbors, and smiling, but STOPPING! Holy cow now that is some kinda excitement. I know I'm used to modern hydraulic brakes and all but it seems to me that either I'm weak or them thar brakes are not doing their job. Is this normal and more importantly, is there a fix. Hopefully, "them's NOT the brakes". Help!

tks one more time,
Jerry

Heavyhands;
Start building up those leg muscles.... It does take a bit more effort without the help of hydraulics. Are they new brake linings? If so; some of the newer linings don't stop too good.

The brake linings need to be soft enough or high friction for the brakes to work properly. Since 2/3 of the braking on modern vehicles is the front wheels, you will only have 1/3 to 1/2 the effectiveness with only rear wheel brakes. They will stop the vehicle but planning ahead is part of driving a pre'28 Chevy.

You did not mention if you have had the brakes apart.
It is not uncommon for rear axle seals to leak and allow differential oil to contaminate the brakes. Worn axles or bearings can make it impossible for the seals to do their job.
DRY BRAKES are a must for maximum stopping power.

Mike

It shore is fun to approach an intersection at full speed and realize that you may not stop as the yellow demands as the light turns to red. To add more joy to the picture you are driving a pre-28 (two wheel brakes) and it has been raining. This story is not a {could have been] but a real life situation. With maximum pressure on the brake pedal it finally locked up at about the stop line and slid from one walkway to the other before it decided to stop. Tires were 30 X 3 1/2 clinchers with about 60 pounds of pressure. One of you engineers can calculate the square inches of contact to the ground. Not very impressive. So the next time this happens I must make a snap decision to either 'run' the light or demonstrate the sliding ability of a light 1925 Roadster with the clinchers.

You would realise that a truck like yours basically replaced a horse and dray which would have wandered along at about 5MPH. Your truck would have wandered about at around 20MPH which was faster than most people had ever been.The roads were often hopeless so that kept speeds down. There were no traffic lights causing sudden braking. Of course as time went by things inproved; they had to. Anyway what you will realise is that your truck will never stop like a modern but it should stop in a satisfactory manner. I would find someone who is familiar with these vehicles and understands what is satisfactory. They should say things like "That's as good as it gets" or "Not good enough", at which point you go back over the system which really is quite primitive and simple.Things like modern hard linings don't help and adjustment is critical.

Ditto to Terry's comments re hard linings and adjustments.

I was a victim of hard modern linings, next to useless.

Went for a softer and never looked back.

Good luck, and if you go for a softer lining, make sure they are rivoted and not bonded. Otherwise they may squeal.

Cheers

Ray

Hi Jerry, there is a method to setting up and adjusting the brakes as well, you have to get ALL your leavers in the right position, to get maximum efficency, a bit hard to explain in print, but basically when the brake is off the rods and the pivot arms must be 30 to 40 degrees behind the apex of there travel,so when the brakes are fully applied the leavers are at about 10 to 20 degrees past the apex, THE reason for this is that the fulcrum of any leave is most affective as it passes over the apex of it's travel, and I found that it was also a good idea to go through ALL the clevis pins trow them away and drill out all the holes and fit new cleavis pins to remove any slop every little bit adds up,so you have to take into consideration all that has been said on the list, good drums, no contamination, soft linings and the correct geometry. I did all these things to my 28 and it stops on a dime as you Yanks say, RAYCYCLED

I'm beginning to understand the purpose of the horse now. As you approach the intersection at speeds of 20 mph or more, you throw the horse out and he back pedals until you stop!

Seriously, I am afraid I am going to have to do some more research on the real braking situation. That is, I will need to research the yellow pages of the telephone book and find someone that speaks brakes, this is jargon I don't understand unfortunately. Maybe they will take pity on me and let me watch so that I can learn something. RAYCYCLED, to do what you suggest, if I had a drill in hand and was around my rear-end (the truck I mean), there is no telling what I might ruin forever. Soft brakes, hard brakes, oh my! I can see my next message to VCCA..."Hey fellas anybody know where I can fine a new rear end (the truck I mean), a set of inner and outer brakes, axle, and might as well throw in a rear bumper!!!"

On the bright side, I am meeting with a local antique car club for the first time today and maybe I can find someone that will stop laughing at me long enough to recommend a good brake man. Geez, I hope there aren't any red lights or stop signs between here and there.....

Y'all have been kind and have offered some good advice. I'll be sure and pass that advice on to my brake man.

tks,
Jerry

If the brake man you find is less than 65 years old, find another one! All younger folks know is hydraulic brakes and hard linings. You can find a guy that works on construction or earth moving equipment. They have clutch and brake mechanisms closer to our old Chevy brakes and understand high friction, low speed and mechanical linkage. So do the old tractor guys.

Hi RayCycled,

Have just fitted softer old type linings (you know, that material that we dont talk about) and they are getting better as they go. I would dearly like to understand fully what you are describing about the pivot arms, but I dont.

Can you elaborate a bit more, or do you know if there is anything in print. My focus has been on the clearance of the bands.

Cheers

Ray

Well I'm 40 and I understand Chev brakes, (Indian bikes too), but then again I was brought home from the maternity ward in one, OK it is hard to explain in print about the brake fulcrum but i can post a diagram, I don't know of it written clearly any where, the work shop manual (you can buy reprints of) does have a diagram of the brake mechanism but no real explanation, I don't suspect they expected people to be maintaining the car with 80 years of wear n tear. Does this list have an online manual or the like i can post a diagram too???

Blokes your age with an understanding of 80 year old Chevys are a rare commodity. Actually the vast majority twice you age still haven't a clue. I hope you didn't take my comment as a personal one but general in nature.

RAYCYCLED, you're not thinking of visiting the USA any time soon are you...specifically the beautiful sunshine state (Florida)? I'm just kidding but you are the kind of friend that old guys like me could enjoy having come visit (and stay a spell).
Tks for your responses, it is good to know you guys are out there.

Jerry

Hi Chipper and Raycycled,

I have the Chev manuals and the "Old Car On Line" 28 Chev hand written specification manual as well. After working on these critters for some 38 years, this is the first time I have heard some one mention degrees for setting the brake levers. I follow the manuals to the letter, and have the brake cross rods setting tool,but if there is an improvement, or "science" in setting the brakes I would love to try and learn the process. Hey your never too old to learn, and I am only a young 58.

"Man must master the machine, the machine must not master the man"

Cheers guys

Ray

Ray, I'm just asking but does the '28 manual apply to my '26 as well? That is where I get confused, do the manuals, recommendations, suggestions and opinions apply to my vintage or are most applications strictly born-date related? In other words do I need a manual for just my '26. I've noted that there were none listed.
tks,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I suppose the best answer is, a 28 manual is better than nothing as some of the mechanicals are similar, however there are differences in the brakes and engine that require a dedicated manual for a 26. If they are not available from the on line site as a reproduction, they do come up from time to time on Ebay.

Good luck

Regards

Ray

You need the Owners Manual for the 1926 and the repair manual for the 1925-26 K&V. You will also find the Chevrolet Service Bulletins for 1926 and 1927 are very helpful. All of these items are available in reprint.

Ray and Ray, thank you again. Although I knew some of what you said about contracting the build-out of the cab/body or at least the loading part of the truck some of it is still new to me. Maybe if I can ever locate the numbers on her, it might help settle the remaining questions. On another note, how does one go about researching the vehicles born-on-date (manufacturing date) and its history? Are there places to research vintage vehicles just like a geneology site for ancestors? Sorry, it is the nurd coming out of me again.

The best of the linings for old brakes that I have found is "Green Gripper". Google for sources. I have used this for more than 10 years on bikes, and cars, and it works great.


Herb

Usually checking records doesn't go very far because the records were not kept except for a short time. What I just said means records are a crapshoot.

Following the ownership by owners only goes as far as who is still alive.

I am extremely lucky in that I can go back to the original purchase of my 1925 Roadster. I have the original title, payment contract, required insurance papers and the original owners drivers license from new till the state quit giving a new license each year. When I went to license the car in my state they wanted the original title which I conveniently lost. Was able to get a lost title which I turned in so I still have in my possession all the original paperwork.

After you get your brakes working as they should (can make them skid) you still need to slow things down when approaching any hazard. other traffic can go around you if they are in a hurry.

J,

I am going so slow that snales and land tortoises are circling around me like a flies around a chuckwagon. I am sure the regular vehicles are cussing at me but the old gal (truck) is 84 and she can't move much faster than that. Besides, I don't want her to fall and break a hip!!!

Ray,

Then the numbers from the block and/or body probably wouldn't lead anywhere. Is that what you are saying? I was just hoping it might tell me where it was made, etc. I guess I am not as concerned with who all owned it, only where life began.

tks,
Jerry

Now you have brought up another subject. Go to your engine with pencil and pad. Copy everything you see on the bottom left of the passenger side of the engine. Remove the valve cover and copy everything you see there. Look on the cowl to see if there are any data plates and copy those. Look on the side of the seat for any 2 1/2 by 3 1/2 data plates and just for fun check the floor where the passenger would place his right heal if sitting in the passenger side of the seat.

Bring all of that back to us and we will decipher it for you.