VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER Chevrolet Speedsters VCCA - Speedster Friendly?

I’m building (accumulating parts for, really) a speedster based on a 1928 Chevrolet engine. Is there any tolerance for that in the VCCA, or would I be better off to leave everybody alone?

I don’t want to make any waves, but the technical knowledge around here would be very helpful when I start reconditioning parts.

Regards,

Dave

David, I know several speedsters that have been in VCCA tours. They were considered roadworthy, proper lights, brakes, etc. liability Insurance and tags & registration (that may be a bit of a problem for your Dept. of Vehicle Registration) I don't know why one would cause any waves, but folks on side of the road, probably will wave as you drive by!

Dave... There are plenty of examples of speedsters in our club, of both the "factory made" and home built for fun variety. I use the term factory made loosely, as bodies were made by other companies and used on Chevrolet chassis. I know you said you are building it around a '28 engine, but what are your frame, wheel, grille and hood choices going to be? Obviously, the closer to factory '28 specs, the better for the purists in the club... but that said, there are plenty of people in the club that don't even own a Chevy... it's more of a people thing anyway...

Thanks for the comments, fellas. I was a little worried because of some things I’d read on the club site about not welcoming modified vehicles.

I’m trying to keep the parts mix all pre-1932, but otherwise my choices are pretty flexible. The theme here is “what could I have pulled out of the dump in the early 1930s?”

I have a ”˜26 Ford frame, because this started out as a Model T speedster, but then along came the Chevy engine. T guys really don’t like that I’d sully a Ford frame with a Chevy engine (although they’re somehow okay with using the Chevy head on a Ford engine block, but I digress...), so I thought I'd check how the Chevy guys felt about it. I will probably keep the Ford frame as I really like the way transverse springs look on an open-wheeled car.

I’d like to use a teens or twenties roadster or touring-car body - a Chevy 490 would be neat, but I haven’t often encountered them. A fiberglass Ford body is an option, but is probably a last resort. I might even go with something homebuilt.

I would like to track down some Chevrolet disc wheels for this project, although 21-inch wire-spoke wheels are also welcome.

-Dave

If you have a T frame why not use one of the T Speedster wood bodies that are available?

The more Ford the speedster remains the less excited VCCA members will be. It is mainly because we are Chevrolet enthusiasts but also appreciate other vehicles too.

When I mention T Speedster I'm only talking abour bodies that are made to fit a T frame. There is nothing about them that is T except they fit a T frame.

I'm in the process of gathering parts for a speedster also. Have most of what I need, now just time to start the project. Using the T frame and grafting the 28 engine may present some other issues. Like transmission and differential mounting. If you have not looked up the site www.nwvs.org ( North West Vintage Speedsters ) you might take a look at that organization for some ideas.

Are you looking at building an open bodied speedsters or the later dirt track racer bodied style speedster ?

I'm using early 4 cyl front axle spindles to drop the front end down about 2 inches.

Hi again, thanks for the replies everybody.

To clarify, I would normally call what I'm trying to build a gow job - that is to say a 1920s or '30s style hot rod with a factory-type body but lowered suspension and a hopped up period engine - but people don't usually recognize the term, so I have taken to saying speedster instead.

A big influence is the pre-war version of Chuck Spurgin's 1925 roadster:



If I found a pre-'28 frame, I would probably adopt that for this project for the aforementioned reasons; though I might graft in the Ford rear crossmember. The 1928 frame, having been designed to accomodate the six cylinder, is a bit heavy for my taste.

-Dave

Hey David, Me thinks that you protestes a bit too much. Go with the Chevrolet engine, maybe a 235 six engine, 3 speed transmission and frame and build a real Chevrolet Speedster! I built my first hoopie out of a nice 1934 Chevrolet pickup, keeping only the radiator back to the dash and windshield steering wheel and seat. It would put any "souped up" model A in the ditch!
We will be able to help you then....

David,
I like your idea of using the '28 engine and whatever frame you like. Your thought process is on target. A race car of the period you have chosen would have been built out of what ever was available, cheap and would accomplish the task.
John Gerber, one of the pioneers of early dirt track racing in the midwest raced a highly modified '25 Chevy engine mounted on a Model T pan and coupled to a T transmission in a race prepped T chassis.
If the club or its members do not embrace your finished product, It is their loss, not yours.

Mike

John Gerber is definitely an inspiration. I'm planning to copy his front spring perch.



I will stick with my Chevy 4. If a '29 to '32 Chevy 6 (they were 194s, right?) had come along, it would have been an option, though.

-Dave

I run my 28 chevy 2 dr 4 banger totally stock at the Newport Antique auto Hill Climb in Newport Indiana (newporthillclimb.com). They put me in a tough class with a bunch of 6 cylinder cars up to 1930 or so, I guy there with a nice 29 Chevy said his old 28 outan his 29 going up the hill and said mine would most likely do well. It did! I got second place in that class. I think a 4 cylinder Essex took first but not sure. Also someone ran a modified 4 cylinder Chevy at Bonneville salt flats and did very well. Dont run off and go 6 cylinder thinking it will be faster than a 4 right off the bat. You might be suprized.

Bob Rufi had a Chevy 4 powered streamliner on the dry lakes, and the Spurgin & Giovanine roadster (I posted a picture above) was the high-points car for the 1948 racing season on the dry lakes. There's definitely a land-speed pedigree for these engines - albeit usually with the addition of a three-port Olds head.

-Dave

Hi Dave

I am also building a chev 4 based gowjob taking tips from Gerber etc. There are a number of guys doing similar builds in the US and Australia and several very good threads on the HAMB website with extensive discussions on both the vehicles you pictured and a good thread on modifications to the chev 4 motor. While the chev 4 is a little more challenging than a Ford T or A you can achieve significant power increase by a few basic mods such as Stromberg carb, HC pistons, olds head etc etc but the sky is the limit.

Kume

A fellow not too far from me made it his passion to squeeze every ounce of performance available from his '28 Chevy engine.
Reground Camshaft, Longer rods (aluminum) to increase compression, modified '37-'39 oil pump, and updated carburetor are the things I can remember.
I rode in it once and he had it "crankin". He did have some reliability issues, however, and finally sort of gave up on it.
I assume you have all read John Gerber's book.

Mike

Hi Kume,

Yup, I’m Bigcheese327 on the HAMB, and a regular commentor on the 1928 Chevrolet 4-cyl thread over there. One thing I’ve discovered, though, is that there isn’t as much crossover as there probably should be between restorer/speedster guys and traditional hot rodder guys.

I assume this goes back to the 1950s where hot rodders were viewed as vultures who destroy old cars, and restorers were viewed as uncreative sticks in the mud. Nowadays, we’re all preservationists and historians of a sort, and I see no reason we can’t get along. It’s not as though many traditional rodders are building cars from nice originals anymore. Some of these street rodder guys, though...

35 Mike,

I haven’t had a chance to read the Gerber book yet. I think I’m going to have to bite the bullet and just buy it. I typically like to preview my books through the Inter Library Loan system, then buy them if they’re something I will be referring to again, but nobody seems to have Outlaw Sprint Car Racer.

There is definitely a narrow line to walk between performance and reliability in an antique engine. I really don’t want to blow up my engine, and I’d like to stay with babbitt bearings, so I’ll be erring on the side of reliability. That won’t hurt me in the safety department, either, as I don’t want to outrun rear-wheel-only, non-self-energizing brakes!

-Dave

I disagree?

How can rodders be preservationists and historians, when they take to old chevs with oxys, chop roofs in height and fit thumping V8's.

I admire a good Hot Rod, but lets not confuse preservation with heavy modification.

Look were its leading, Rat Rods, some not even fit to be on the road, even rusty panels are the norm.

I could quite easily build a rod, on a new chassis using retro modern body work, but completely different from chopping a early chev into something it was never meant to be.

I am actually surprised that a site such as the VCCA seems to be so tolerant with Rodders.

If that calls me a Stick in the mud, I am proud of it.

As my signature says, "Street may be neat, but 28 is great"

Cheers to all, and let the rocks start coming.

Ray

Ray,

I understand your concern, but I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of where the traditional rodding scene is these days. I have seen darned few guys take a complete original or restored car and turn it into a radical hot rod. Just as I’ve seen very few restorers take a pile of parts accumulated from various sources and turn them into a restored car.

Back when hot rods and restos were competing for the same material, I understand why there would be some hard feelings. I don’t like seeing a nice original get turned into a hot rod (some tasteful speed parts I can understand, but chopping, channeling, engine swapping, etc. no), but I’m talking about a ”˜28 Chevy engine that was in a sawmill, a ”˜26 Ford frame that came from some other guy’s street rod project, sheetmetal scavenged from a ravine or reproduced by a company.

You’re telling me I should be trying to restore a ”˜28 Chevy around this engine? It seems like I’d be money ahead to find a complete car and restore that.

Traditional hot rodders are preservationists and historians in the sense that they’re essentially restoring cars to a point in their life sometime after they left the factory - be that ten, twenty, or thirty years later.

Street rodders, as I said, are a completely different ilk and would be better served to stick to fiberglass bodies and fabricated chassis - leaving the good original stuff to the restorers and the traditionalists.

-Dave

Now, I am here to tell you that is a ways to go as compared to what VCCA was when I joined.

....and way beyond, what some of us Traditional Vintage Chevrolet restoring members knew as VCCA....."Where have all the Flowers Gone?"
Me thinks that the club has gone out chasing the mighty "Grow the club, any way we can" syndrome .... by pushing the envelope out past the margins.

Hi all,

Here's my 2 cents (probably what it's worth).

I am in awe of all the Super knowledgeable 'Traditional' restorers, both for their depth of understanding and attention to detail. I believe the core of the VCCA is to cherish and honor the Chevrolets as they were originally built.

Having said that, I also think there should be a place within the club for folks who want to rescue a '28 Chevy engine from a sawmill and bring it back to life powering a period (1930's or so) hot rod. I can't think of a better engine to put into a F*rd frame!

Maybe the VCCA needs a 'Parts and such' category for such projects. I'm not advocating changing any judging or how awards are given. Just some tolerance of folks who follow a slightly different path from the purists.

I have a '28 Chevy engine that was built up in the 1950's for racing motor boats (Winfield updraft carb, OLDS 3 port head, and Mallory dual-point distributor). I bought it from the guy who built it. Don't know what I'll use it for yet, but I'll find the right project someday. This project would be in addition to my other two vehicles, 1927 LM truck and 1928 AB Canopy Express.

I would hope I could talk about my future project somewhere in these forums without ruffling feathers.

Okay, now you can throw some of those virtual rocks my way.

Drive safe, Dean

I would love to see a built up rod using parts available at close to the time the car was made. Start using parts from different eras and you pretty much have a street rod. I also saw Olds 3 port heads mentioned several times. The Olds head has the same size valves as a 490 The 28 2 port head has larger valves and I suspect a closer look may show a more favorable balanced exhaust flow, I may be wrong, but I just have that gut feeling which usually pans out. I have an Olds truck with a 3 port head and it does run like a striped ape, but is also geared for pulling down houses. The judging part of VCCA does seem a bit sticky as far as perfect well done restorations. I do like those too , but I also like to get mine out and drive down gravel roads without having panic attacks. Little scratches and dings don't bother me much. I do like to have the car as close to "right" as I can get it though as far as parts and mechanics go. I really don't care about getting trophys and the like. I worked in a trophy shop for 6 years and built more than I care to see again. I do like to go to shows and have fun meeting people with beater cars and 100pt show cars alike. Has anyone seen a "graphitti car" that was a popular kid thing back in the 20s? Those things were hillarious! All kinds of jokes and funny sayings painted on old half junk cars.Twenty three skiddoo, when I grow up I want to be a Caddilac, one wheel in the junk pile,An old rag wrapped around a bald flat spot to cover up the bare cord on a rear tire and the like. I would like to see someone show up with one of those sometime!

and for what its worth

I have been restoring chev 4's since the 1970s and maintain my 25 roadster and 27 truck in strictly original, if not trophy winning condition, however I have a growing appreciation for the dirt track cars of the 1920s and 30s and the traditional hot rods of the 40s and 50s. My spares department will be used to assemble a 'gowjob' of sorts with period parts no later that 1932 and will include a few 'Found On Rubbish Dump' parts to boot ala John Gerber. Its a very important and fascinating part of the history of motor sport and culture and should be celebrated and restoration or replication of those amazing cars encouraged. I also admire the traditional restorers that maintain the bench mark for accurate restoration and I put one foot in that camp. I see this forum as accommodating the latter and the HAMB increasingly the most pragmatic and user friendly forum for the dirt track and gowjob fraternity. The www accommodates all passions - celebrate it!.

I dont know about the US scene but here in Aus most of the "street rods", "hot rods" or what ever you call them nearly always start as a restorable body that gets chopped, a few are fibreglass replicas.

I like a good street/hot rod but shudder at the thought of a restorable car ruined to make it. The "rat rod" is a waste of time as far as I am concerned and some should not be allowed near the road let alone road legal.

Tony

Here's a fellow in Australia who couldn't find a roadster either there or over here in restorable condition, so he bought unsalvagable bits and used them as patterns to make his own: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=585136

He has hinted he might make some bodies for sale...

-Dave