VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Electric Cars - yes or no!

I recall a post by Bill B. on the Volt where a member stated "I don't see myself going to battery power. I got too much gasoline, rust and coal dust in my veins". Now all of us "Gear Heads" (in our dreams) would probably prefer wearing gasoline as after shave and gear lube as cologne but that doesn't mean we can't have the cake and eat it too. Everything from cars to bikes, motorcycles, boats, airplanes, and trains have all been powered by electricity. Electric cars have actually held the land speed record until 1900 and have been around a lot longer than gasoline power has. Between 1832 and 1839 Robert Anderson of Scotland invented a crude electric-powered carriage and there are many, many others. Electric did not have the vibration,the stink, and the noise associated with gas powered cars, but most certainly CAN if so desired via computer
technology. We can make that car look, sound, smell, feel and ride like anything we want.

So what happened? Why is it all we see are some $40,000.00 ,no rang, four-seater "GOV." vehicles?

Oil was discovered and found to be "cheaper???" than perusing the electric vehicle (EV). Also and probably even more significant ["The initiation of mass production of internal combustion engine vehicles by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely available and affordable in the $500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the price of the less efficiently produced electric vehicles continued to rise. In 1912, an electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a gasoline car sold for $650.

Electric vehicles had all but disappeared by 1935. The years following were dead years for electric vehicle development and for their use as personal transportation until the 1960s"]

NEVER kill innovation or cease technology that you may need in the future! With the speed of technology today, one could only imagine where we would be presently in battery technology had this been given just trivial support and not SH#T CANNED instead! As a result, we are behind, bewildered, bamboozled and $5.00 a galloned.

Whether we like it or not, some sort of EV, either hydrogen or battery will be the way to go in the future. We just have to get TO the future! Seemingly impeded by special-interest, Big Oil and GOV. reg., it seems we are doomed; but not all is lost. Speedy progression in cell and lap-top technology is but one example of "Build and they will come". High demand and interest fueled a huge market, a flood of innovation and
ultimately lower prices. We can't drive our phones and computers!

Our Historic Autos will always burn fuel, make noise and smell of grease and oil. This will never change and with this being more a love of our youth than anything else leads me to ask exactly what would sway you to consider the purchase of some kind of EV for transportation in the future?

finddoctr, Big Oil? We that own stocks, or have 401 accounts are Big Oil and we are the ones responsiable to elect politicans that will actually work for the American people!
Point one finger at Big Oil and Govt. spending and waste and you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

I have questions about there being enough electrical energy to plug in your electric vehicle every time you drive into the garage, and how about all those 18 wheelers and service vehicles, planes, trains and ships at sea, not to mention all of our petrochemicals, plastics, solvents etc.., that comes from petroleum and coal? The power that runs into our homes and businesses by transmission lines doesn't all come from wind and sunshine, in fact most of it is generated by fossil fuels. With the present reluctance to commit to nuclear generation, we will only add to the present limitations of the electrical power grid, shall we freeze in the Northeast. and Midwest in winter? and those of us that live in the sunbelt burn up in the summer? In my lifetime I expect to be filling my tank with liquid or compressed petroleum products, or be forced to walk, either that or be moved around by non-existing dream vehicles or on a flying rug or on a dream cloud. I doubt that we should be burning our corn and agriculture products rather than eating them and feeding our domestic farm animals.
Therefore, I believe we best be developing our petroleum resources to the highest possible amount of production, and quickly.
DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!

That was my quote! That was said becouse truley i cannot see myself EVER going to electric. WHY, becouse im a mechanic. NOT a Sparky. I pride myself for being able to do what i do. An art form that is dieing, i uphold and keep alive. You'll never acheive in this life time or the next few life times of what a fossil fuel engine can do or has done. BECOUSE electrical cars ARE NOT PRACTICAL. And they havnt been truley practical since the days of experementation due to expense and lack of technology. Even with today's technology, it still really isnt practical even though a few sparky specials have managed to find their way onto the road ways. It's this simple, inless you can create a car to go atleast 1000 to 2500 miles without ONE slugish response, cruse at a highway speed all day at 75 + M.P.H. has demands of an ever battery draining air conditioning unit, radio, lights and all availability's of today, battery about the size of a big truck battery, a motor little less than the size of an automobile engine that puts out 250 + H.P. (600 + for freight vehicles) even more for racing cars and yet recharges as quick as a gas tank fill that takes 15 minutes or less, there never will be that fossil fuel engine free, reliable, dependable, eviromentally friendly total electrical powered car. WE dont have that technology YET and japan sure as h*ll dont. Let alone have the ability to make this all AFORDABLE to the working society. This still doesnt rule out serious mechanical break downs which will prove more pricey in repairs than a fossil fueled automobile. Spark plugs, filters, ocasional sencor (if your a modern driver) carburator repair, oil change...ect. ect. ect. 20 dallor parts, 100 dallor parts, 2000 dallar repairs...versus gold chiped electrical brained 15 to 20 thousand dallor repairs. You do the math. For that much, they might as well be disposable cars! And im sure thats coming too. Just not in my life time. And likely not in my grandchildrens life time. Like it or not, fossil fuel has a "nitch" in our society, maybee not permanetly, but it's definitly going to be here for YEARS to come. Quite frankly im proud electric cars arnt practical, becouse it's like i said, I've got to much gasoline, rust and coal dust in my viens. I pride myself being mechanical in a day and age were thinking for your self is faiding fast. having the ability to solve mechanical trouble. Having the ability to fabricate to repair mechanical trouble. Ya, im a fossil fuel dinosoar. My days arent to last, but the main fragmentation that keeps our mechanical fossil fuel burning "heaps" on the road is becouse I personally, am not ready for it, and like the futuristic cars of the 50's & 60's were names like George Barris and Harley earl once echoed, truth be known scociety isnt ready for it eaither. If that isnt the biggest example then i dont know what is. Even if technology such as this WAS available, it likely wouldnt make a good seller BECOUSE of those facts. Just as it were in the early 1900's. Costs and technology. You've got your big truck guys, you've got your muscle car piston pounder, you've got your mechanics and your weekend gear heads. Ti'll scociety really calls for it, you wont see this electrical car. Thats unfortunate again for fossil fuel cars and truck and trains, plains and automobiles with the rising costs of fuel. However thats another story and you wonder were absolute truth seperates from absolute BS and greed. I have grounded thoughts of that aswell but thats for another story.

You ask Electric cars, Yes or no? ... the truth is it's practicality versus impracticality and gasoline and diesel won.

What did he say ?

I am thinking that he said NO!!! to 'lectric vehicles,
I like our EZGO ELECTRIC golf cart, it is fairly quiet it has to be charged nearly all night every week, and $600 worth of batteries about every 3 years....but it is no match for the GASOLINE Kawasaki 3010 4x4 Mule with a 620 engine, NOT EVEN CLOSE! Mules aren't as quite and it will run a month on 3.5 gallons of gas!!

DRILL BABY, DRILL!!!

If they ever get the range of EVs up and get the national infrastructure to support them I'd go electric in a heartbeat. I'd tell the arabs and oil company execs to go perform an unnatural sex act on themselves. I'm not as well off as a lot of you guys. The price of fuel is killing me. It costs me over $5 just to drive to town. I've parked my gas pig pickup and am driving the car that gets double the mileage. I combine trips and still have too much month at the end of the money.

All we have to do is STOP being forgien dependant. It's absolute BS that gas is near 5 bucks a gallon. I dont care what they say, its GREED. Now, america was once independant. It's what made us a FREE country. If we all stuck togeather, we could be again. Independant that is.

Boy Howdy, You ain't alone being left with too much month after the money is gone!

"Once I had money and worried about where to put it or about loseing it,...... now I don't have money, so I don't need to worry about it!"

Well, that's a few answers but not to be misunderstood, I am totally FOR drilling for Oil, Nat.Gas and the pursuit of anything that might work as fuel short of nukes!
As for the Big Oil snippet, Oil companies do and will suppress ANY new innovations that even appear to slightly threaten their total domination of world energy. EV's are where they are today because of that greed and the "easy chair" complacency we have all fallen into. Ever notice the stark similarity between a needle and a gas nozzle? They are both used by addicts!
We have the knowledge and the resources to produce anything in a reasonable amount of time but not when impeded by greed, politics or special interest.
As for retirements and 401k's, what do you think Wall Street would look like today if we had continued development on EV's and no longer depended on "the stuff" to get us around. One Hundred yrs of development would have defiantly got us where we need to be today and the technology alone would have continually created new jobs and solved tons of other problems.
Yes, you can argue the fact that Oil will save us and I agree we do and will always need petroleum products, but fact is it has been nothing but trouble to us since in 74.

From my perspective, as long as Big Oil is "in Bed with politicians" ain't not-in going to change. As my Grand Father use to tell me, If you wanna know who's in charge, "follow the money."

As for Battery/electric operated cars, I ride in one every so often in Palm Springs. Takes us to the Golf course, the store and out to dinner, very nicely and quietly. And it zips along too.

Enjoy,
Michael41

Just a comment from someone that has been around and in the Oil & Gas Exploration and Production side for all my life.
Most current US exploration and production is done by independant partnerships and corporations other than Big Oil, Big Oil has decided to move to foreign lands where their mass produced wells will pay out quickly and render a better profit than the independants can operate on.

If you believe the crap that comes out of the mainline media and the politicians, and that electric cars and trucks are the answer for the short time, and until we can get an 81 DeLorean that runs on banana peels hamburger scraps,and fruit pits, I have some really good windmill stock I will sell you.
DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!

MrMack, I am not bashing independent US corps., my point is that had we used more baskets to carry our eggs we would not have $5.00 a gal. gas! The EV's that I consider to be a viable choice do not exists yet. The Hydrogen Fuel Cell is the infancy of the type of electric power I am talking about. Not battery pwr. This is the future. There is more hydrogen in the universe than anything else. Just figure out how to efficiently move those electrons.

I recall reading an article in a Pop.Science mag back in the 60s on an old ford s/w junker that someone had fitted with a Humidifier on top the fender. It had a pipe with a tennis ball as a blow-off valve and dryer duct leading to the throttle body using gas instead of water. On interview, he claimed 60 mpg. but his neighbors boasted, he's lying, more like 100 mpg.

I don't remember exactly which comp. bought it and killed it but I think it was Shell.

I know what i wrote was probably a little confusing to read but thats the creative writer for ya. I didnt even recall hydrogen power which is more plausable than fully electric.

Hydrogen is a good power source, and there is an abundance of it on the planet. One small problem is that most of it is united two Hydrogen atoms to one atom of Oxygen in water and it takes a higher percentage of energy than desirable to seperate it from the O2. We do have another supply of Hydrogen that we have been using for Millenniums it is called Hydrocarbons!, A lot of it is grown in trees. Fish-Kissers and Tree-Huggers don't like the word Hydrocarbon, or use of Hydrocarbons or even Carbohydrates (which is where we get a whole lot of human and animal food from). Maybe we should think about eating it rather than burning it in a fuel tank or a home furnace?. They say burning Hydrocarbons are messing up the habitate of them little rare fishes and bugs, maybe so. I think that the easiest way to produce Hydrogen is to get it from Natural Gas and petroleum, and in order to get a goodly supply of inexpensive Hydrogen...You need to:
DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!! for oil and Natural gas Notice that Natural is derived from NATURE?...and to DIG, BABY! DIG! for coal

From what I've read on the demands now, and in the future, for fossil fuels, I have come to realize that the price of gasoline isn't likely to go down very much. China keeps popping up as a major user of these fuels and still in its infancy regarding demands and usage.

Accordingly, I believe that the best answer lies in the research for better life capacity for cells/batteries and suitable accommodations for their recharge.

It seems to me that the Chevrolet Volt is a step in the right direction. There's even a significant waiting list for them.
Charlie

Thing is it were george washington that said we should never affiliate with forgien affairs. With that being said, Japan is Japan, China is China and the U.S. is a WHOLE diferent country. What does THEIR fuel ussage have to do with US? Truthfully the answer is nothing. We need to kick some greedy corperate a$$e$ and drill on our own land.

Man Oh Man! and who is going to be the big kicker in this grand exercise in frustration?

buy yourself a electric golf cart and see the USA!

Yea... I've been for that since 1974, but we need to look ahead to something else as this is only a temp. fix. Choice and diversity is what I feel to be the only solution.

Now I can understand the reason for all the other technologies to be lagging (GREED and corruption), but why aren't we drilling to at least ease the pain? Just doesn't make sense. Just isn't American!

An RC can roll around the surface of mars seemingly forever and satellites last yrs and yrs in outer space and we have the $5.00 gal. gas here on earth? Somethin ain't right!

If we all stuck togeather, all we have to do is turn the keys off. Alot of people would do without, alot of people walking, alot of people riding bikes. But would that hurt us as much as it would hurt them? They NEED money to stay afloat. All we need is transportation and learning to get up off the couch. If they get no money, theyd choke. THEN when the corporate greeds just about turn purple, WE the people have an agreement to drill on our own lands and uncap alaska. It's less complicated than what it really is. If we all stuck togeather.

Even the days of 1.85 a gal. wasnt bad. and it wasnt that long ago. Now all of a sudden BOOM HERE WE GO! 2..3 ..4 and probably soon 5 dallors a gallon over night! Spells greed.

Start'n to get off topic a bit. Sorry

Not really. The question was> and it's $5.00 a gal. that may do it.(or should do it)

I use both a gas chainsaw and hedge clipper and electric and found that an 14 inch electric saw out preformed the gas. Same with the hedge clipper. Now of coarse gas is more convenient,(no cord) but electric seems to cut more consistently and has a longer chain life.

If and when we ever do see EV's I believe we will be very impressed at functionality and the performance they will offer.

Findoctr,
We did not agree in the past but I tend to agree with you on this, as an electrician it could be a very good thing! I think for someone like myself EV's can serve a purpose. I commute to the train (Long Island Rail Road) 15 miles each way and the cost of fuel is killing me! However 40k for a Chevy Volt is not an easy pill to take either. I don't know if I could see myself buying one AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE. I would like to see them after 6-10 years service and see how it works out.

I remember going to the Stanley Steamer Museum in Kingfield Maine on VCCA Tour a few years ago and we were told that in 1910 1/3 of the cars were electric, 1/3 were gasoline, and 1/3 were steam. The Stanley Brothers thought they had a lock because they invented the condenser and figured water was easily avaiable, as opposed to electricity and gasoline. So they sold their patent on film developing to the Kodak Brothers to build a plant in Springfield Mass. The Kodak Brothers needed finances so they went to the Eastman family who became their partners (Grand daughter was Linda Eastman who married Paul McCartney). Oh well we know how that one went for steam power....

One thing I would point out that the NEC (National Electric Code) was always very visionary and would have provisions for such things that would seem to be on the horizon. An example of this is every household room in new homes being built has to have seperate 20 amp ckt for a window A/C unit. Last time I looked I did not see any mandatory provisions for for charging stations for both residential or commercial. It would be a massive project in our inner cities to do. I park in a new public $6.00 a day garage that was opened last year and there ae at least 750 spaces and no where are there any provisions for an electric hook-up.

Good topic to bring up, but remember guys toys are toys, every day transportation is just another tool. I can't see restoring an EV in 25 years but then again I can't think of anything I would want to restore that I bought in the last 20 years anyway
John

That is one point I was trying to make John, when/if the infrastructure is there to support EVs and when the range is improved they will be much more attractive to prospective buyers. Granted $40K is a lot of money but if you could drive 400 miles a day with a place to recharge overnight for $10 as opposed to $100 for gasoline they would be much more cost effective.

My idea is combination steam/electric. And you wouldnt exactly have to BURN to create the steam part. The thing that makes this seem dangerous is society. Reason being is becouse we've lingered much to far away from the do-it yourself'ers of yesterday. However im sure it could be built to were even a 6 year old could operate and be just as safe. Take alot of engineering though.

Being a Mechanical Engineer and having studied Heat Engineering , Thermo Dynamics and all aspects of steam power both conventional simple steam as used in recipo steam engines and the superheated steam used in modern steam turbines, I also have a great deal of experiance with nuclear materials and nuclear power generating. don't know what you mean we needn't BURN?
A nuclear Reactor and a solar heat consentration farm doesn't BURN, but they certainly heat, and heat, and heat and neither is considered the safest process on the planet, even though both are a bit safer than a midnight ride in a certain career politician's Lincoln, as far as the loss of life in US nuclear power generating history. I am still waiting for the 81 Deloren that is powered by banana peels and a scrap B.K. WHOPPER .....Beam me up Scotty!