VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 35 Master vs Std engine?

How do you tell the difference between 1935 Standard vs Master engine? What is different about the intake manifolds? How many things are different externally. Are the serial numbers all interchanged or is the Master series completely separate from the Standard series of numbers? Do std serials start with M and Truck serials start with T and Master start directly with a number? (I'm tying to ask the right questions to see what engine a man has for sale.)

Jim,

You should have called. Here's what I have on record.

Master Pass have "No" prefix in front of the engine serial number.

Comm. Motors have a "K" in front of serial number.

Truck Motors have a "T" in front of serial number.

Standard motors have a "M" in front of serial number.

Right Drive Motors also have an "R" in front of serial number.

Economy engines have a "V" in front of serial number.

I'm leaving for Seattle in the morning, so call me after the 27th if you have further questions. We can probably figure out what month the engine was built from the serial number as well. Have a Merry Christmas.

Dick

To verify that it is a 1935 engine the engine number should fall between 4709885 and 5500178.Standard engine a M prefex as oldie stated.The Master intake manifold has a casting number 837232 and was used on 34-35 Master only.The 35 Std. int. casting number is 837315 and was used on 35 Standard and all 36 models.Yes,it was smaller as was the carb. throtle bore.The early 35 Standards used the 34 Master head with 45 degree exhaust valves and the old single valve keepers.The late Standards had 30 degree ex. valves and the improved two piece valve keepers that are still used today.(the heads have different casting numbers).All other engine parts were the same.

Gene, Dick...That is good information you have given regarding the diffferent alphabetic prefix to the engine serial, as well as manifold casting numbers and use. I have never seen it documented before but my 35 Standard does have an M so now I know.

Regarding the date the engine was cast, it uses an alpha, numeric, numeric. An engine with code B 10 5 would have been cast on the 10th of February on a year ending in 5, such as 35. I think this info is well documented so it may not be new to a lot of you.

The easiest way I know of differentiating the 34 Master head from the later one is that all the head bolts are the same length on the older head, where as the later head has shorter head bolts on the manifold side. This can be easily seen with the valve cover on so you don't have to check the valve keepers to see which type it uses.

....David

Your right about the head bolt length.I had forgotten about that.The valve keeper story is not totaly accurate also.True that the '34 Master-early '35 Standards had the old (but larger than previous years) straight keepers but Chevrolet furnished an improved valve for those models after a few years.They made a replacement valve,int. & exhaust , with the split keepers.This requires replacing the caps as well as the keepers but eleminates the possibilty of the keeper pulling thru the cap and dropping a valve.I have my '34 converted as the newer style valves were easy to find years ago.Does your '35 have an early or late head? I have no info. as to when they changed.The best thing is to put a '36 head on a'35.This will raise he comp. ratio up to 6.00 to 1 and was the replacment head used for '35 & '36.

Hi Gene, you are right about the 35 style head being different than the 36 style. I wasn't aware of that.

My parts catalogue shows pn 601478 as a 35 head with the U shaped keys, 30 degree valves and 7 shorter head bolts. It lists pn 601988 for 35 economy models and 36s. Both styles use same head gasket and bolts.

I don't know whether the later 35 Standard models went right to the 601988 head from the 34 Master head, or whether they used the 601478 head. The parts book does say "35 economy models" and all 36s for 601988. The economy model was a special variation of the Standard that used a 3.82 rear end ratio vs. the 4.11 used on normal Standards.

As far as I know all 3 of the heads I have are the 601988, but I would have to check the casting numbers to tell.

Dave,According to "Cast Iron Wonder" by Doug Bell the early '35 Sandard heads were discontinued as soon as the Master head was used on the Std.Master head would be the 601478 head (5.6 C.R.).The 601478 head was discontinued in June of 1939 and the 601988 (6.0 C.R.) head was specified for all '35-'36.He also states the the 601988 head may also be used on a '34 Master but the '36 head gasket must be used.Do you have a copy of the JUNE 1983 G&D?...it has the Proving Ground tests of the 1935 Standard.Very intresting......Will you be coming down to the 6 cyl. tour in N.J. in Sept? we had a good time in Pa. in Sept.2002.

Dave,According to "Cast Iron Wonder" by Doug Bell the early '35 Sandard heads were discontinued as soon as the Master head was used on the Std.Master head would be the 601478 head (5.6 C.R.).The 601478 head was discontinued in June of 1939 and the 601988 (6.0 C.R.) head was specified for all '35-'36.He also states the the 601988 head may also be used on a '34 Master but the '36 head gasket must be used.Do you have a copy of the JUNE 1983 G&D?...it has the Proving Ground tests of the 1935 Standard.Very intresting......Will you be coming down to the 6 cyl. tour in N.J. in Sept? we had a good time in Pa. in Sept.2002.

Gene, we hope to make the NJ 6 cyl tour in /03. Do you have the date on it? Is Chuck running it?.....David

You guys are GREAT!!
I have now learned (almost) more than I wanted to know about how to tell the difference between Standard and Master 35 Engines, and the details of the every changing parts. Thanks alot !!!

Dave,The dates are Sept. 7-15 and Chuck is running it.From the way he describes it we will be having a good time Touring southern N.J.,Cape May and many other intresting places.We will be staying at the Windgate Inn at Vineland N.J.rooms are $68.00 a night.If you want more info. I have Chucks address and phone number.My reservations have been made.

Dave,The dates are Sept. 7-15 and Chuck is running it.From the way he describes it we will be having a good time Touring southern N.J.,Cape May and many other intresting places.We will be staying at the Windgate Inn at Vineland N.J.rooms are $68.00 a night.If you want more info. I have Chucks address and phone number.My reservations have been made.

I have an unusable engine that came out of my 35 Master Coach, and plan to procure another engine. However, I am curious about the vintage of the parts which make up the engine. Here are the numbers:

Block casting number 837531 and K-25-8. The latter would indicate it was cast Nov 25 1938 per your advice, but it has the water jacket only near the head. Serial number is unreadable - I presume it was stamped on the machined surface to the rear of the fuel pump?

Intake manifold casting number is 837232 (a 35 part!!).

Head casting numbers are 887981 and G-10-6.

Exhaust manifold casting numbers are 837309 and 9113.

Rough shape W-1 carburetor tag number is 569S, not 284S as a 35 Master should be.

JimG,This is what I can help with on your engine.The parts books from the 30s dosen't show casting numbers but the block and head numbers fall in line with the number series used that year.Both the head and block for 1935s were discontinued by 1939 and replaced with 1936 parts.Thats how the casting numbers come to a dead end.The manifold carried on and yours indicates a 35 Master......As your block was made in 1938 is indicates that is was replaced with a new unit which is why it has no serial number.New blocks came with no number as is was to be transfered from the old block.The head is also newer by the prod. date-indicating that it was also a replacement.Both may have been installed at the same time-head was in parts stock longer.......By 1940 if you purchased a new head or block you would get a 1936.The 1936 engine had extensive improvements but could be used in a '35 with little problem..Of course the full length water jackets make it easy to identify.The '35 engine is the only year to have the exposed cylinders,fuel pump bolt holes straight across and NO boss on the left side (lower-center -34 only)for a motor mount bracket.I have a 35' block that I got from a street rodder but its buried in my garage so can't get at the casting number....The Carter 569S carb. is newer replacement made in the 40s.It replaced all 1932-36 carbs. and is a 1941-48 unit with the correct lever on the throttle to fit the earlier cars.Its a much improved carb.-just remember to use a 41-48 kit if you rebuild it.

Gene, good info there. The upgrades/changes I know of between 35 and 36 blocks are full length water jacket (nice to have), integrated oil gallery for main bearings instead of brass tubes between center and end mains, different water pump, and slightly heavier crankshaft, although the 35 crank was heavier than 34 Master's.

Are there any more upgrades that you know of?

David,There are more changes but of a lesser nature.The water pump is larger as were the vanes on the oil pump.A baffle is placed ,in side the engine over the road draft tube opening,---ever notice how a little oil drips out of your 35s tube after a long run,camshaft was redesigned with lower lift to increase low end power-The smaller '35 Std. intake manifold also helped here as well as if was made smaller to"govern engine speed" in Chevrolets words -did that mean to keep it together?.There were changes in the crankshaft timing gear from 34 to 35 to help with low end torque.In its original form the 34 Master was lazy in the lower RPM range.By 1936 they had the old 206 performing at its peak .Was strange that it was all done for just one year and then replaced with the 216.But they did use the same valves and lifters in the 216.....I did put a '36 crankshaft in my '34 as it has the extra counter weights.A "new" crank covers '33 to' 36.Early 36 had smooth valve cover-lates had the ribbed cover that looked like a '37. .....The next question is why did they carry over so many '36 chassis features to the '37 and up-date them in '38.-starter,flywheel,clutch,rear spring to axle mounting,and extra valve springs on the lifters.

Intresting accessory available in 1936 was an oil temperature regulator ..Made by Harrison it cooled the oil in the hot weather and warmed it in the cold.It was called a "Viscon".had a water cooled -enclosed core on the order of the '50-'54 Power Glide cooler.Its strange that this would have been brought out in 1936 when they were saying that the full lenghth water jackets would help to lower oil temperature.-also the rocker arm feed oil line running thru the coolant.Buick used an oil cooler like this from 31-35 and GM may have had too may left over.

Hi Gene. According to my service bulletins for '35, the camshaft timing was advanced 4 degrees by a different crankshaft timing gear. I didn't have one of these gears when I did my engine so I got a 1 1/2 degree offset key for a 427. With the '35s smaller crank vs the big block that would give me about 4 degrees. Works great, I have since found a couple of 35-6 gears but have left the old set up in.

I have often thought about an oil cooler as the oil gets very hot. I am running a sealed cooling system with pressure cap so coolant temp isn't a problem though.

David,Its intresting as to what Chevrolet did over the years to tweek the horse power curve on the 216.The 1940 had the crankshaft timing gear retarded 5 degrees over the 37-38 .They said it was done to increase efficency and performance at higher speeds.Horsepower was still 85 but peak went up from 3200 rpm to 3400.The they retarded it another 4 degrees in 1948 for the same reason but H.P. figures stayed the same.When these cars were newer I always noticed that the '48s were peppier in the high speed ranges.I installed the later crankgear in my '39 and increased the top speed from 75 to 80.I think that there is a 35-6 gear in the '34 which has a reground '35 camshaft.I have a new "36 camshaft here but the reground one is doing OK and its too much work to change........Chevrolet recommended #30 oil for the pre 36 cars (summer) and #20 after '36 due to the lower oil temps.

I mentioned before that the casting no on my head is 887981 and no one could specifically identify it. Now I have been told that the casting no on the head of the engine I am thinking about buying is 837981. Perhaps one or the other of us is misreading the second number and they both are 837981 or both 887981. Does either of these numbers register with anyone? ?? ??

Jim,Chvrolet never had a part or casting number that began with 887 but the 837 was common so I'll guess you read one wrong.Have you seen the "new" engine as yet??? The first time that you posted the number I thought that you just made a typo error

JimG,

Cast number 837981 is a good number for the 1936 6:1 compression head. It is part number 601988.

The change between the 1934/35 early head (with 15 long bolts) and the 1935 late (with 8 long & 7 short) happened before 4-4-35. Engine serial numbers from 4783317 (Master models), M4862180 (Standard models), T4860723 (Trucks)and above used the Late head.

Mike :)