VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1916-1922 - Model 490 thickness of the bronze clutch collar 21 490

Warm weather is going to let me fiddle with the clutch this week on my 21 490 with the clutch/brake set up. not the type with the hand brake. At the last adjustment the pedal worked somewhat smoother but the brake was on full before the clutch would release. Also the book shows how to oil the collar, but the collar is way under the floor board even if the pedal is pushed. It does not look like what it shows in my book position wise and it would be almost impossible to get any kind of oil can in there to fill it and I have a bunch of old oil cans including ones for steam engines with long spouts. I am wondering if the collar is badly worn throwing everything else out of whack so I need to know what a known good one measures at.

The original thickness of the throw out collar is just under 1 1/2 inches thick.(1.495") but may have been exactly 1.5" as i am measuring an old one at the top area where is hasnt worn.

The faces may be worn ,or the pivot holes and pins which the collar pivots on may also be worn.
My sample has worn away at the lower ends down to 1.200"

A new one is 1.50.

The new clutch leather should be 5 mm thick, not more. And you need to remove the floor board on top of the flywheel to oil the leather. Push the pedal and one splash inside the cone on top and bottom. Start the engine, and release/couple the clutch some times to spread the oil around the leather. If too much oil (slippery clutch) use Fuller's Earth on the leather. Be careful when testing the clutch to avoid damage.

The brakes and clutch need to be adjusted so "wide" that the clutch is fully released before the car starts braking. The service brake is adjusted independently, but both can be connected to a brake light if wanted.

The leather still looks plenty thick, but is less than 5mm thick. looks like about 1/8th-3/16th, but it is oily and who knows what kind of oil was put on it since it is still wet looking and the car sat for 10 years. I will spray it out with brake cleaner or at least kerosene to cut the excess oil and let that dry for a few days with clutch pushed and then reoil with the neatsfoot. I have a bottle of neatsfoot, but fullers earth has been tough to located around here. May have to use diatomacious earth powder since I have a bag of that. The bronze collar was greased heavily with wheel bearing grease but that looks like it was done too late and done to keep it from getting worse. I just went out and measured mine and it is 1 3/8th" at the bottom. Hummmmm Anyone have an extra collars or has anyone made any? I think there may be a bronze foundry in Terre Haute. If I can get some cast would anyone be interested in a new one?

I misunderstood. You were writing about the bronze collar instead I think. My old one (worn out and changed) is 37 mm (1 1/2") at the top and probably a little more at the bottom. I had a new one made/drilled out in Sweden near Karlstad, USD 400 + postage some few years ago. I can find the adress if needed.

Ask in the cat pet shops for Fullers Earth. I bought it from UK. They have it or similar stuff. Check on internet what kind of substitutes there are. You do not need to clean the leather if yoou use that stuff. Neat foot oil you find in horse equipment shops.

The bronze collar is not supposed to run in grease. Instead you pour engine oil in the small sump at top of the collar. The oil percolate slowly out of the oak plugs further down. Never forget to check and refill may be after only a fortnight without use. I have put a plastic pipe line from the engine room down through the hole in the lid on top of the sump to avoid having to remove the floor board first. You fill until the oil is creeping over the sump lid and to the ground. I may have a picture somewhere, but later.

The collar will be worn to pieces if you are not oiling in time. My old one is a very good example. The new was made for the old sample and is working excellent, but I remember to check and OIL before driving. Dry running the collar will be a real miss.

This nice gentleman, Bob Knaak bobknaak@hotmail.com has ready cut new suitable leather, springs etc. for around USD 60.-. Remember to put the rough side OUT, before fastening tight on the cone with pop rivets. He sends instruction with the items.

Some pictures of the worn out bronze collar removed from Solan

http://s889.photobucket.com/albums/ac98/solan1916/clutch%20collar/

The oak wood plugs are all gone except for two.

The lid on top of the sump/oil container is gone too. I made a new one, adding the hole for the engine oil to be poured into the sump.

I have a used clutch collar that measures 1.5" at the top tapering down to 1-3/8" at the bottom. I'll post photos when I get a chance.

I have a question: one side of the collar has four wood plugs and the other has two. Which side faces the clutch? I'm guessing the four plugs would face away from the clutch since that's the direction of force when pushing the clutch pedal and I'm thinking more lube would be needed.

The 4 wooden plugs are oil weep holes , and they should go towards the rear of the care, as that is the pressure direction to release the clutch.
The collar should be a constant thickness of 1.500 inches unworn.

As promised, here are photos of my spare clutch hub and collar.

Clutch Hub & Collar

Fiddled with it some today. It is worn to the point of not letting the clutch fully disengage. I may try to find someone who can weld bronze and get it machined back down if a new one doesn't show up.

Well, if someone knows a good machinist/shop put me down for one. Maybe two if there not too expensive.

Cheers,
Gary

Took my collar over to a welding shop in the next town over today. He also has a machine shop and is going to try to weld it up with bronze rod and machine it back down. He said I should know something by Wed or Thurs. Before I took it over, I tried flipping it over and it just pushed out the clutch the same distance so It may have been flipped once before.

Quote: It is worn to the point of not letting the clutch fully disengage.

The obvious reason for this is a severe lack of pouring enough oil in the sump on top of the collar, before driving. The touching surfaces have gone dry and been worn out. My friend Oistein restored a 1920/490 already in late fifties. He has used his car since then and has driven many, many kilometres each year, but not been able to wear out the collar, due to enough oiling. He has changed the clutch leather twice and has had no break down as to the pinion/ring gear etc. in all those years.

Anyone here having longer experience (50 years) with driving a 490 (or another Chevrolet)as a hobby car?

There was an aftermarket oiler attachment available, which had a tube connected to the clutch collar, and then had an oil reservoir(or funnel) attached to the firewall to enable easy filling , and a constant oil supply to the collar.

Just to ammend the above post. The aftermarket oiler was made by Sturdy Manufacturing Company , and the oil receptacle was clamped or fitted onto the upright tube of the intake manifold.

Jack,

Sounds like you have seen a picture of the after market oiler setup. Perhaps, in an early after market catalog? Would nice to see a picture of it.

cheers,
Gary

It must have had a flexible tube on it. A copper line would eventually break off from work hardening.I had a 1929 Mc Cormick Deering 10-20 tractor that had a flexible tube that greased the throwout bearing. I may make a copper line that I can plug the ends on after removing when oiling so it doesn't drip oil in the tool box and keep dust out of the tube.

Yes , i have pictures, It has a flexible tubing , similar to headlight conduit used on 1931-32 headlights,( oil tight) and a 90 degree elbow screwed into the top of the clutch collar.

It sold on ebay a couple of years ago. Off memory, it went to another Sydney 490 owner.

I am off to work now, so will post pictures later.

Solan - Is the clutch collar reservoir supposed to hold oil for a period of time? I filled mine yesterday, and the oil drained out over night. Maybe it needs to be filled every day? Or maybe my clutch collar has a hole somewhere.

Mine has 4 holes about 3/8" on one side and 2 on the other and all the larger holes had the wood plugs intact.It also had some smaller holes about 1/16th-1/8th on the side with the 4 holes. I don't know if someone drilled those. One was at the bottom on one side and one on the side in the middle and another at the top. I figure the one at the top was to give a shot of oil right away, but don't have a clue why the other holes would have been there. A couple of the smaller holes had been brazed closed,but the one at the very bottom was wide open and would let out all the oil on the one fork. It took less than 5 min to remove my collar and that was including time looking for a 3/4 wrench. Putting it back in took someone to wiggle the pedal to get the bolts to line up and get the threads started in the yoke. Now if the collar on yours was completly dry then the wood may have shrank some and let the oil out too fast. I would give it a day or two and retry and see what happens.

You may check about the holes in the pictures I have left here above.

The reservoir is ment to be holding the oil over time, but the oil will/shall leak slowly through the oak plugs all the time. That's why you have to check and refill before first driving that day. The system is not working right when all oil is gone in one night. It should last 3 - 4 weeks, I think, so you must find the extraordinary leakage and seal it.

I have found the information about oiling/greasing in the instruction books, both to 1931 and 1916 useless. My cars need much shorter intervalls between each filling of oil/grease to "survive" the driving and wear, even on our modern roads.

I use the grease guns and oil cans quite often, but much less on the bearings of the starter and generator.

The "everlasting" oiling of the clutch collar of 490s is vital to reduce the wearing as much as possible.

Got my collar back from the machine shop today. Made new oak wood plugs,put the cover back on and tested it out with oil. Well, It has oil leaking out of the pivot hole on one side so have to clean it good and see what is going on. I suppose some gas tank sealer would get it stopped up.Hole isn't worn much at all,so I wonder if it had a casting flaw since new?

Solan,

Wow, 50 years and your friend is still driving his 490. That is a real testament to how well the car was engineered. Thanks for sharing.

regards,
Gary

I picked up a used clutch collar to keep as a spare. I was cleaning out the inside of debris and low and behold I removed what was left of an original wood plug. From what I see of the plug they were cone shaped and at least 3/4" in length on the side of the collar with the 4 holes. Good to know when I try to make replacements.
I am going to try what Bob Kerr did and have a shop weld up the bronze and machine it to size.

Cheers,
Gary