VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1961-1964 61 Convertible top colors

Hi:
As a long time memeber of chevytalk and the AACA forums I've asked this question in both but have so far come up empty.
I'm in the final stages of a correct restoration on a 61 Impala convertible. It is Ermine White with a Roman red side stripe and red and white interior.
I'm not thrilled with either of the top colors, black or white so I'm considering red to match the interior.
I know red was offered among other makes in the GM line for 61 and I'm looking for documentation that colors other than black or white thru a special order such as COPO, etc. could be had for the Impala.
I'm also looking for contact info for Alan Colvin as he may have knowledge of what I'm looking for.
Any help or leads would be appreciated.

There are only 3 top colors available from the factory for the 1961 Convertible.

White or Black top was available for all exterior colors except for the following:

The exterior Midnight Blue could have either white-black-blue.

The exterior color Jewell Blue could have either white-black-blue.

Yes those are the known colors. I know by special order such as a COPO different colors and other equipment could be had. I'm just trying to find some proof. As car people of the day know that just because it's not on the dealers order form it doesn't mean it can't be had.
In 61 other GM cars the same size as the Impala could be ordered with red tops so I'm thinking the possibility exists, especially since the tops of the full size line are interchangeable.
Thanks for your response, others welcomed.

What GM car was available with a red convertible top in 1961?

Was COPO, as we know it today, even operational back in 1961 to modify orders?

According to info I received from the National Antique Oldsmobile club a red top was available on the 61 Olds. 88.
Also research tells me COPO was around back then getting its start in the truck line.

I know you weren't happy with the replies you received on the Chevytalk site, so let me try to explain the situation another way.
Yes, it may have been "possible" for a dealer to process an order through the COPO dept in '61 for a number of changes to a '61 convertible. The car "could" have been assembled at one of the BOP plants and received a red top. It also could have been built with an Oldsmobile interior or a Pontiac reverb. But as for AACA judging, you would need documentation that your specific car was ordered that way. There was no list of available COPO alterations for a buyer to choose from (like a list of RPOs).
You could restore your '61 with factory A/C (even if it wasn't original) and sail through AACA judging because A/C was an available Regular Production Option. But if you want to get through AACA judging with a red top, you will need to create phony paperwork for your car.

Verne

It's not that I was unhappy with the answers, just touching all the bases and being totally sure before I made my decision.
To date in three different forums you are the only one to agree that a red top (or other equipment not in the dealer brochures) was possible. That gives me some satisfaction.
I'm not going to create any phony documentation so I will probably go with the white. Hopefully I'll get as far as I can in AACA and that will take several years and by that time the white top will probably look like crap anyway and I'll change to the color I like!
Thanks for the clarification.

Being a former Chevrolet employee, I looked into some of my literature I have stashed over the years, found this quote.

"Chevrolet developed the Central Office Production Order system to meet the need for a procedure to build non-standard cars with Regular Production Order parts. It was intended for fleet orders: fleets of police cars; fleets of low-powered strippers for meter readers; fleets of taxicabs. It enabled Chevrolet and its dealers to compete effectively for large orders of exceptionally boring vehicles".

As noted within the quote, COPO dealt with large orders, not one of a kind.

The earliest I personally knew of COPO within Chevrolet was 1963, when the all aluminum front end was made available for drag racing. COPO eventually branched out to assembly line modifications, such as the 427 Camaro.

Bob

Bob,
First I have a question as to WHO made that quote you listed above? It certainly wasn't Chevrolet. A garage buddy or somone on another web forum??

2nd, The aluminum front fenders on a '63 Impala were NOT ordered through the COPO dept. It was ordered as RPO Z-11. I've documented COPO orders as early as 1958.

Verne

The source of ther quote is from 1969, in an internal notice, of sorts, from the Norwood, Ohio assembly plant to plant employees.

In 1963, the aluminum parts were available, over the counter, as well as the RPO..... for dealer/customer installations. My wordage in my earlier comment was not as clear as it should have been. However, I did not say the aluminum "parts' were ordered through COPO.

Now, since you have documentation going to 1958, what COPO orders were initiated on the assembly line in 1958? It is not the story about 4 speeds being installed, is it?

Next, will you take the time to answer my other post I have concering COPO camaro cars? It would be appreciated.

Bob,
I don't know much about COPO Camaros but there are a lot of people who do and most are on the Yenko.com site

As for 1958 COPO Chevys, I've documented a few that appeared to be government service vehicles or utility company vehicles. The variations on those cars included special paint, interior seating and/or cargo space, side windows on sedan devlieries or wiring with lots of extra ground straps. They actually had "COPO" stamped on the cowl tag. I've also seen several that were stamped "F&SO" (Fleet & Special Order) which was the department that processed the COPO orders.

The wording on that quote just doesn't seem to me to be as official or professional as I would expect from a Chevy internal document. It sounds more like something a magazine writer would say. That's just my opinion.

Verne
PS: If any '58 Chevys were ever built with a 4-speed, none have been documented to my knowledge.

After being part of Chevrolet for 35 years, I discovered MANY things which were done, written or otherwise, which did not meet the crtiteria of being "professional".

It was always my thought this internal note went out to select employees to refresh them on COPO, while announcing the addition of the 427 being installed under special circumstances, within the foreseeable future.

Thanks for the feedback, Verne.

This question was forwarded to me via the AACA Library because they could not produce the answer that was wanted. I have answered this question with Warren privately, and pretty much said what Verne said. COPO cars were fleet sales, I do have a 58 cowl tag that was a PA Fish and Wildlife Car and the cowl tag says PAINT SPL ACC. SPL-FWS I have also seen several Taxi cabs in junk yards in the NY Metro Area and the had similar stampings next to ACC it said SPL-NYC-TAXI. I only wish I had one of those tags.....

If Chevrolet installed a red top there would have to be a part number for it somewhere, and there is not nor any history of any other colors in 1961 than Black (part number 4336754), White (part number 4336755), or Blue (part number 4336756). As Bob pointed out there were part numbers for the RPO Z-11 cars, not neccesary to build one at home but there has to be service parts. Lets really think about this, if someone had the money to pay to have the dealer build a car with a red top, they would not own a Chevy!

Warren good luck finding the answer you want, but I know for VCCA Judging the owner has to proove it, as well as ACCA and has to be a copy of Chevrolet Paper. I am curiouse as to what website supported the fact that red top was actually out there.
John Mahoney

It wasn't a website or even Chevy related. A moderator from the National Antique Olds Club stated this:

"I'm kind of amazed that Chevrolet only offered convertible tops in black and white in '61. Oldsmobile had tops in light blue, mint green, beige and red, in addition to black and white. It's no secret that an Impala is the same body as in Olds 88. The tops should interchange. You'd think they would have offered more colors".

Thanks,
impala